Do people like the idea of the ADS in missions with destructible objectives?

With the addition of D-Charges anyone can get out of the panoplies, I think the ADS is less of an issue, and the idea that you need an dedicated CC specialist in your army to even play this mission is lessened.

 

Without the ADS, you can autowin as Tohaa (and other factions, but Tohaa has the most obvious strategy) and the opponent cannot do anything unless they have jammers.

With the ADS, it's a Mario Party simulator, where the dice are much more important than anything else to determine the win.

The main issue of the mission is that the AC2 is partly outside of the DZ. And that the opponent can interact with it while ignoring their opponent for the most part.

With other consoles, it's less of an issue because you can flip them back to your control, but the AC2, if you break it, there is no way to come back.

 

That doesn't help when factions like ISS and USARF has only 4 profiles that can destroy it (also no TAGs). While Corregidor has 14 (including TAGs). Of the 4 ISS and USARF have, 3 of them start in the DZ, while 1 infiltrator/Parachutist. The Ninja is even AVA1. However Corregidor has 3 infiltrators, 2 parachutists, and Evaders have D-Charges on EVERY SINGLE PROFILE.

So that means, people are unlikely to play those factions in a tournament because they can't compete. That can show that no one is playing those factions but people ARE playing them. Just not in tournaments with missions they can't do. I personally am more likely to play WB since I get 10 that can do the job including TAGs.

Yes I know you can get D-charges from the Panoplies. But some factions can just ignore it. While others have to waste orders getting a D-Charge from it. If you don't do it, you are only giving up 1 objective point.

 

You are giving up 1 objective point that the other person will score and be able to take out the AC2 because of, so that will leave you 1 objective point behind. The ADS also makes it harder for a person without D-Charges to kill the AC2 because they are risking getting zapped and not doing any damage.

 

That's a possible, not will. If you ignore using it, it doesn't mean you let the opponent do it. You cover it with whatever you can to make sure they don't. Goals: 1st destroy their AC, 2nd protect yours, 3rd make sure they can't use panolplies, 4th classified.

 

Exactly, that is why I think, (with the reintroduction of the Panoplies dispensing D-Charges), it is a fine mission because it has multiple goals which will require strategies and an application of tactics to accomplish.

 

The panoplies help with L&S but not with Frostbyte. The ARM is lower but it's still harder for those that don't have the tools to do it.

 

I like the suggestion earlier to allow the AC2 to be hacked or interacted with in some fashion to allow the ADS to be deactivated.

I was just fishing for salt lol. This rule is pretty rubbish.

 

I personally think Frostbyte would be fine without the ability to destroy the panoplies at all. The furthest one is so far back in the deployment zone it is very difficult to get to, and destroying the heaters themselves are not what gives Objective points anyway. If they are aiming for killing more army points, killing the things protecting the heater will probably net a player the win in that regard, or they have already lost so bad that this is a hail Mary attempt at salvaging the game, and I am not sure why that should be easier.

 

I think you've been quite selective about what you've replied to there.

 

I thought Mindwipe was the fix to L&S? Did I miss something?

 

I don't think a numbers based solution like this will get at the root cause of the problem - that the AC2 can be attacked by stuff at the start of the game and often in a way that cannot be interacted with. Making it 1 ARM higher or similar does not change this, it just adds to or modifies a small failure chance on the attack. And the problem here is that adding these failure chances punishes people who play the mission properly - "I did everything right but I guess my guy is stunned now and I receive a massive setback" is not a fantastic experience.

I think a lot of people in here would agree that it would be better to attack the real cause of the problem - that the AC2 is hard to defend, and that it can be attacked straight away and often in a difficult to interact with manner due to capabilities like eclipse smoke or impersonation.

Some solutions that would attempt to fix this root cause of the problem would be less based around modifying the numbers on the AC2 and more things like;

• Place the AC2 further back in the deployment zone, so that more units can attempt to defend it.
  
  
• Allow the AC2 to be repaired. Perhaps with penalties, no servant bot etc, to prevent this being too easy.
  
  
• Alter distribution of area denial capabilities (mines, jammers, pheroware, hacking) so that armies without this currently can protect the AC2 more effectively. This could also be achieved via free units similar to the current CSU or Corsair or Turret.
  (BS based defense tends to struggle on this mission due to capabilities like eclipse smoke and also due to strong shooting that can just clear them, so sectorials that rely on this can find themselves with few means to really defend the objective.)
  
  
• Make the AC2 harder to kill with large ARM and BTS and even an ADS system, but tie all of these defenses to an objective someplace on the map which can deactivate them.
  
  
• Prevent the AC2 from being attacked at all on the first turn of the game.
  
  
• Allow the player to place the AC2 in some fashion, so it can be located in a more defensible area.

 

IMO ADS is bad and it should be deleted. To balance things I would suggest:
1) AC2 cannot be attacked during both players first rounds.
2) Put AC2 2" back into DZ OR make DZ 16" for this scenario but keep AC2 at 12".
Or both of the above at the same time.

 

Just delete looting and sabotage. It's a terrible mission..