I agree that unidrons are better to compare with, but Onyx being such a peculiar army ... I wouldnt mind having a feuerbach, but i guess we won't have more than MSR as ARO/multipurpose weapon.
Burst 5, bs 17 hmg with mimitism is why its overpowered. People are bringing up sniper rifles, which is good. But 5 man dakini hmg with marksman lvl 2 is absurd.
While there are already things like the Djanbazan Core (MI inmunne to shock, MSV2, sniper rifles for 0.5SWC, HMG, BS 13 or so...) I can imagine the Dakini in Vedic might see its SWC cost when it comes to HMG raised to 1.5, maybe with an extra candy, like a nanoscreen or tinbot (I doubt a Visor onf any kind could be considered, since it already will ignore cover).
It's good, but is it that OP ? Bagh mari core FT for example have similar stats without needing a hacker to give them support hacking (BS 12 mimetism MSV 1 for them vs bs 11 mimetism MM lvl 2 for daikini), yet people manage them
With support ware a bs 17 dakini is 2 bs higher than a bagh mari, significantly faster at 6-4 vs 4-2 and 5-10 points cheaper with a cheaper swc hmg. The bag mari has msv1 which only helps against mimtism and camo and has weakness against white noise and they both have weakness to smoke. If they are both against camo or mimitism, bag take the lead by 1 bs. Dakini are superior to bagh mari for cheaper.
But Dakini cannot go prone. Supposedly, that's much more important than having two levels of Unconsciuos or being able to receive Supportware.
First, gimme back my eyes XD Second. Supportware does not give +3BS, it removes the -3 to BS from cover (but the target keeps the ARM and BTS bonus) and adds shock. So no BS 17 Dakini, it's a BS 11 + 3 because of link, plus potentially +3 because of range for 17. Bagh Mari go to 18, ignore mimetism/camo instead of requiring a regular order and a hacker/evo/H+ to ignore cover, and can dodge 25% better, go prone, and are immunne to hacking. So, if you want to compare a 5man (robot?) link of Dakini, do it against a 5man Bagh Mari link instead of a single model ;) As for the speed, remember that defensive fireteams do not move much. And if we go to offensive ones, 5man hackable fireteams are quite the hard mode to go around, specially if they are 1 wound models instead of the usual HI ones... Finally, yes, a Dakini costs less than a Bagh Mari, individually. But you can place the latter by himself on a list, while the Dakini requires an investment of at least 0.5 SWC and either 14 points from the mk1 posthuman (which is the mk harder to choose between profiles, usually with the doctor being the most optimal version because it's a mimetic NWI specialist that can heal herself... also known as "Slow but much cheaper Avicenna") or 21 points from the mk2 AHD (and you give up you are carrying that guy around) or 23-25 points for the Danavas or 24 points for the Deva Hacker. Which in the end is the Danavas H+, so each individual Dakini does cost up to +5 points on average; granted you get an extra order... but you will use that one up with the supportware anyway. And require a hacker, can be hacked, had less BS and no MSV, dodge at -3 with an even lower PHIS stat... ;)
It's not that uncommon: Metros Caledonian Volunteers Order Sergeants Moderators Druze/Brawlers Acontecimento Regulars (Alright, they do have an FO but with a bizarre 0.5 SWC cost)
Non of these are the "basic" troop of a faction (by basic troop of the faction I meant the line trooper AVA total/or at least >4 of the vanilla faction, the one from the vanilla starter), all of these are sectorial troops. Line kazak, fusilier, alguaciles, zanshi, ghulam, kamael, unidron... all of them have FO specialists, but not the daikini. Thorakitai got it but they are the greek line trooper.
I was comparing to a 5 man bagh team, otherwise dakini is 5 bs higher, lol. You are right that bagh team has 1 higher base bs but to ignore a modifier that is almost guaranteed to show up means that in almost all cases the dakini will stay at 17 compared to baghs who will be 15s. For the hacker requirement, i am under the feeling that the danavas is almost an auto include due to her sheer usefulness and strength in the hacking war as well. And i dont feel that a dakini link should just stand as a defensive link. Their speed and output firepower is extremely high so its worth spending orders on them.
If I shoot against Impetuous enemies, I don't get +3BS because they don't have cover. Same against enemy troopers that decide to ignore taking cover because they prefer to be in an advantageous range band, sacrificing the +3 to ARM. So no, its not "the Dakini gets +3 BS", or else I could say the same thing about the Bagh Mari MSV1. And the detail is 1 hacker => 1 Supportware, plus demanding one order per turn. Thus, my indication that, in truth, the Dakini cost 18 points at their cheapest when you take 5 (increase the cost if you take less!), because you are forced to take a hacker. Sure thing, you will use the Danavas for more things, but her order is taken already, every turn. As for moving the link, you are welcome to try and move 5 hackable 1 wound models on the battlefield, specially one that will be filled with hackers and MSV2's, considering what is inside the NA2 book (I can see Brawlers on all mercenary companies, and Kempeitai on the JSA, both of which have a linkable MSV2 profile with range...). So yeah, you say "dakinis are over!" and I say "being lv 10 in D&D means facing CR 8-12 encounters, being lv 20 means CR 18-22 encounters, so no real zomg Imma awesome". Meaning, in common speech, that they will be basic infantry compared to what will be around. After all, if a Kempeitai or Brawler shoots at a single Dakini through the smoke, the Dakini can return 2 shots at normal BS, both of them adding +3 from link but very likely the Dakini will be one of two HMG, or a Combi if you were careless enough to leave one in the open... (since it's better to shave off the ones that can't reach you well). After all, a Dakini dodges at 7... at its best. Not to mention, their melee options are Electric Pulse or Electric Pulse. Being the only ones without templates mean they will be a magnet for the melee assassins... XD
Or they can be quickly dispatched using templates. Not only they are bad at dodging, but they also have 0 ARM, contrary to many of our LI.
Almost all games that i have played, either they have cover, are in the active turn with pretty solid weapon, or they are sacrificing themselves for another effect. For msv models, we have white noise. Because of that, it would be foolish for your oppinent to overwatch against dakinis hmg with an msv model. Your argument with dakinis then should be classified as 5 points more expensive if danavas is to be used for supportware. That's totally solid point, no disagreement. Though i find her powerful on her own right and doesnt just provide support ware. And your argument is fair of ignoring cover vs mimitism except cover is literally everywhere. If they don't have cover in the reactive turn or aren't impeteous, they made a mistake. Sadly that simply is this game. While mimitism is a popular effect, it doesn't exist on every none impeteous model during the reactive turn for the entire game. But not moving a dakini up because being terrified of hackers? Nah mate. It happens but generally something you can do about it. And not a ton of players bring infiltrating camo/TO camo assault hacker/repeaters. Killer hackers all day but less threat of assault. But a cheap fast accurate model is extremely powerful. In their active turn they need at worst 11s vs odd and TO and their those enemies are firing back at -3 or -6. Templates are solid answer to them but that answer is good against all non-hi link teams and they are just a little worse at a trick that is perfect against all non hi. Seriously. People are over the moon with clipper drones in druze because of this trick, yet dakini would be significantly better at this trick, as they are faster and have mimitism.
Yeah, but not used for advance most of the time, unless for specific roles: First, they have a k1 combi profile, that can also carry a Tinbot for +1 point (total of 0.5SWC and 17 pts); second, they can link with an Umbra Legate (spitfire, or H+ with BS, plus MA4, mimetism and NWI) and a Nexus operative (hacker with Nullifier, or Kerr-Nau), so you can make an advancing link of Legate + Nexus + Tinbot Unidron + 2 FO. Vedic would have, if mirroring options, a Deva (with no devabot) + Dakinis link, with possibly another troop. However, Vedic doesn't seem like it will have smoke for the combo, thus the linked Spitfire Deva won't be better at shooting than a linked Umbra spitfire at the cost of needing smoke and sacrificing melee capabilties. On the other hand, the Unidrones have a solid defensive Core, with the cheapest but most dangerous composition being 2 Missile Launchers, 2 FO and a normal Unidron kept in total cover as the link leader for ARO purposes (at least at the beginning of the game), with the possibility of compensating casualties with a Nexus SO and an Umbra (or leave behind the ML/PSR and advance with the Umbra and nexus). The Dakini, since right now have only the HMG or the MSR, don't have the same "punch", specially since they don't have a FO profile to provide that annoying Flash Pulse ARO support that forces the enemy to either "slice the pie" or risk losing the troop they are attacking with for the rest of the turn even if it destroys the ML Unidron. Also, the Unidron link is used mostly as an ARO piece that provides orders for assaulting units, usually a TAG like the Sphinx or the Xeodrones/Overdrones. In that regard, an hypothetical Dakini link would act as cheerleaders for what, the Marut? The Asura? Most likely, a posthuman HI like the Mk3 or Mk4, since I see little need to deploy the MSV TAG on an army that doesn't seem to have smoke for her to work with (sure, she ignores Camo leves and ODD, but even so... 120pts and 3 SWC). Finally, you won't be seeing much of an assault Unidron link unless you are facing someone without the models and without using the proxy rules, simply because the Rodok fireteam is much more better at it: mimetic linked HMG, with a Paramedic (the feeling is that most of the time adding the hacker just endangers the link, sine you already can carry medics), double shotguns (B4 mimetic shotgunner goodness), mines... And they are also Morat, so Loss of Lt won't bother them at all. In conclusion, Onyx has much more tools to synergyse than the current list of Vedic units, thus not making the Dakini overpowered in any way.
We have better infiltrators than Onyx, but i agree, that's not exactly the same as "assault troop". The perfect troop here would be Patroclus (melee, ODD, smoke, fast, high burst weapon, he has all), but since he is Steel Phalanx ... We need to see if Asura will get a rework (perhaps move 15/10, or some shenanigans) or if we get another assault troop (for ex. a light TAG) or some kind of smoke (i think it is unlikely through)
I have been giving this a lot of thought. (Trying to figure out how much money I need to budget for the release.) Aleph profiles that are not Greeks: Netrods Dakini Garuda Danavas Deva Posthumans Sophotect Asura Naga Dasyu Rebots Probots Of that list, the Posthuman is the only profile I see as a 'maybe' for Vedic. The Garuda recently got a resculpt. The Dakini are the core troops and are due a resculpt, so I feel pretty confident saying that any release for Vedic in the near future is going to include some new Dakini sculpts. That list is also missing any Medium Infantry. I feel like their is a good chance Vedic will get a new MI troop profile, and in true Aleph fashion it will be so loaded down with options it will cost as much as most factions HI. There are some medium to heavy weapon options mixed in those profiles, but we don't have much in the way of dedicated heavy weapon platforms. My guess is a new MI profile will probably also be Vedic's heavy weapon platform. Lately CB seems to like putting out some bigger sculpts, Silhouette 4 and 5's. I don's see a big bulky armor fitting Aleph's ascetics, and the Greeks already have a biker. I think they will put out a new S4 sized remote, similar to some of the other faction S4 remotes like the Rui Shi or the Peacemaker, but I don't know what kind of theme they will use for its equipment loadout. My final wild guess, Vedic will be part of the Gencon 2 faction box, paired with Tunguska!
This would be counter to what CB have stated previously (Summer 2016) that Aleph (and Tohaa) would not be part of a 2 player box... I'm wondering whether it's going to be Varuna vs Tunguska as either an extension to, or replacement of, the icestorm box. (And vedic coming in May...)
It's not unusual for a sectorial to entirely miss one kind of troop. Or even more (SK and TAG for SP). But it's true MI could fill some kind of gap. Maybe a "katakuri" style remote MI, or a true REM filling the MI role. We could also have either another S4 drone or a human-shaped S5 REM as the heavy weapon platform. It could still have the sleek Aleph aesthetic.
