Howdy Ariadnans, I come to you as a compete outsider. Avoided Ariadna for the past seven years of playing. Currently play CA, Onyx, O12, FoCo, NCA and Spiral. But I've had a lot of CHA in boxes for a while, after I managed to grab them on the cheap, and they've been nagging the back of my mind of late. Something about playing O12, with their smug access to every design space in the game, has made me want to double down and specialise for a while. (I know Kosmo have basically mugged CHA for their best profiles, and everyone's switched over to them, but I can't stand em.) So the day has finally come, I'm doing it, I don't damn well care what people say. Yes, CHA & MMRF have to rate as the most unloved children in the Infinity family, yes CHA somehow managed to catch a hard nerf of late, and yes they're horribly limited in their tactics, but I have a dream. So, oh wise hairy Dawnites, help me out would you? Here's the list pair I'm painting towards, I'd love your take on it: Build 1: All wolf. 4 Highlanders & Wallace, 3 Cameronians, McMurrough, Uxia, 2 FO Sas, Scots ap Spitfire camo and 2 T2 caterans. Build 2: Scalliwags 3 Highlanders & Wallace, 1 Cameronian, McMurrough, Uxia, 4 FO Sas, 4 T2 caterans. Do you recommend traktor-guided? Isobel? Grey pure core? Mormaer haris? Thanks in advance for your suggestions, I appreciate it.
Whichever way you go, you're always going to want uxia and sas, murrough and Cameronian. It's kind of the starting point. As for links, the Scots Harris isn't a bad option. mimetism as standard and better guns have given them a big improvement. Isobel is good for missions where you get significant ITS bonuses for hackers but at BTS 0 and little meaningful support, she's likely to be easy prey for enemy KHDs. She also kills pure bonuses for anything other than volunteer teams so her natural home is being towed upfield by a big gun in a duo or Harris. Traktor mul doesn't work very efficiently in ariadna. Works ok in other factions because of spotlight and repeaters doing marked state in aro. Burns orders in active phase you can use for the main assault pieces to use
Hey thanks, appreciated. I can see what you mean about the traktor - it bleeds orders from your main pieces, and in an assault army they needs loads to develop, so it can be couterproductive to your game plan. Seems like Isobel is a good pick for one of your lists in things like countermeasure. Hadn't really looked at the Scots haris before - nice! So ML, AP Spitfire and NCO/FO? Has anyone made the new Wulvers work? They seem solid; if only they had a specialist. I guess Rosie, shotgun and AP spitfire wulvers is an option, but you lose pure climbing plus.
Yeah that would be a tidy Harris, you could also stick a wildcard in there for missions where you've got to advance up the table and need a different skillset. Wulvers are good for room clearance/holding missions. The extra wounds, CC prowess and kit are great for those objective rooms.
Have only played a few N4 games, but I ran a core with Wallace, Cadin & Wulvers, as well as a haris of Mormars & a Grey, (plus a few extras to bring it up to 300pts). The haris was nasty in active turn, whilst that core was just tough in general. Main downside was I didn't have anything else for my opponent to split their force to deal with.
Mormaer Harris with HMG, T2 X-Visor and Grey T2 Shotgun is fantastic Minimum of 2 SAS plus Uxia gives you some good camo skirmish options McMurrough, Uxia and Isobel are icons of CHA, Isobel give you a non claymore hacking option. Wallace has a lot of utility with Inspiring presence and adds a decent gun to a link of highlanders. 2nd Cameronians can be fun but go with McMurrough first then pick up 1 or 2 of them, a list with 3 plus McMurrough you'll find too redundant as they all do the same thing. I want to like Caterans but always disappointed with them, I haven't run 4 but was planning to before the 15 hard cap was implemented. Don't have experience with Scots their profiles are fine but I play CHA for the claymores and dog soldiers I think CHA is competitive with Kosmo we still do some things better. Kosmo somehow survived the updates with a Core mixed link that got removed from everyone else.
Really handy, thanks! I have a couple of questions... - I hear a lot fo people rate the Mormaer haris, but I struggle with understanding their role. 96pts seems like an awful lot for 3w with no visual mods. - I know 3 cameronians plus McMurrough seems excessive but I really like the idea of redundancy as an answer to the issues they face. The idea would be impetuous them if possible, then inspiring coordinate three that would benefit the most (eg 3 move moving across a firelane guarded by a supersniper who can only aro against one), and you're then in range with at least two to cause havoc. Kosmo are spoilt with good guns and so can force people to deploy heads down, giving the bears a free run - which is something CHA just can't do. You're probably right tho, 2+1 might be the sweet spot. - What does CHA do better than Kosmo? Not being facetious, just wondering, because I don't see anything (other than TI assault stacking).
They hunt TAGs- burst 5 damage 17 AP puts you into high likelihood of straight-back-to-the-box killing anything that isn't mimetism-6 in one or two orders. They are absolutely a glass cannon though, and personally I'd rather they just didn't have dogged at all if they're not getting proper NWI, since most of the time they'll be going unconscious and waiting for a medic anyway, it almost seems like it's just a little Caledonian points tax when compared to the other Ariadna HIs, and the fact that we can only ad one grey to a Mormaer Harris while TAK gets to ad a Volkolak or three to a rokot core really stings. Using wallace to get a co-ordinated order from his LT order isn't a great use of him, you're probably going to use the command token later to get him into a fireteam anyway. I tend to think of that ability as being pretty much just for Joan in vanilla pano, and take a Scots Guard NCO to use Billy's LT order. Really the only thing is that glass cannon Mormaer Harris, Tak has the best tools from all the Ariadnan sectorials, including CHA, with the only exception being the Mormaer Harris, which can be replaced by a Volkolak and Rokots for 80pts with the tradeoff being hard targets are more likely to make ARM rolls, but the fireteam gets to tow specialists for button pushing or keeping the Volkolak on his feet longer. In my opinion, CHA can be brought up to Kosmo level with some fireteam changes, and maybe a TAG, but right now it'll always be second behind Kosmoflot because CHA isn't the focus for CB until much later, and MRRF needs love before the others, so maybe about 2025 it'll be done...
With the fireteam update, if you break a link and the unit that left the team is in coherency at the end of the turn, they rejoin the link for free. So here, you'd a) impetuous b) make any moves or shots you needed to with the full core c) break it for the inspiring coordinated and d) end of turn Wallace rejoins for free. Played it a few times on TTS and it gets you some nice order-free pressure with the wolves. Yeah okay, i see what that Mormaer link does for you now! So one of your lists should consider having that haris in for when you run into a tag faction? In my experience, tho, the most common tag I see is Avatar, and he seems to care not about that d17 AP HMG!
I tend to run Mormaers with T2 Rifles - shorter range, but they become so much scarier, as they basically kill almost everything out-right. Even if their chances of hitting are low(er), my opponents tend not to like taking the chance of being hit with DAM15 AP+T2 shots. When I use the Cameronians, I tend to go for redundancy as well, (3 + McMurrough), because they tend to be a fire magnet and are likelier to die quicker - either that, or take McMurrough plus a load of Galwegians, (mainly so they can put down smoke and/or act as a delivery service for the big guy). If you can use Wallace's Lt order, then go for it - but you'll still need to be careful in setting it up to ensure you have the necessary non-linked models in his combat group. (Him being in a core fireteam means that's half of the combat group pre-chosen). Although I'd have thought that if you break the link, it can't automatically re-form because it no longer exists...? PS: You can actually add two Greys to a Mormaer haris.
Thanks mightymuffin, useful stuff! Yeah 2 greys and a Mormaer sounds a bit more manageable in terms of cost, but as you say you lose that lovely T2 Rifle, or seriously downgrade your hmg. As long as Wallace wasn't your fireteam leader, the link stays up (just at 4 members), however I had the integrity rule a bit wrong: yes, if the fireteam is intact at four members, Wallace can rejoin them for free, no it's not at the end of that turn, but at the beginning of your next. This is quite a bit worse as it means Wallace loses the extra BS, b2 in aro and 6th sense in your opponent's turn, only regaining it at the beginning of your own, leaving him open to assassination attempts. So on balance, it's a nice option to have, but not one you can rely upon it. (However even if you inspire coordinate and then rejoin with a command token that's still more efficient than a plain coordinate, as it lets you use your LT order instead of a regular order.)
Wouldn't say you need the HMG load-out: I've run 2 x T2 Rifle Mormaers, (plus a BSG Grey), and they did a lot of damage. You just need to spend a few extra orders to get them into the right place, but facing T2 ammo is very scary. As far as cost goes, I find it's easy in CHA to buy most of what you want; after all, my list included 2/3 Mormaers, a Grey, Wallace, Cadin & 3 Wulvers - none of them being particularly cheap!
So on a lark, I would like to try this face smasher list: Face Smash ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 7 2 2 VOLUNTEER Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8) VOLUNTEER (Lieutenant) Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8) VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 6) HIGHLANDER GREY Heavy Machine Gun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 28) HIGHLANDER GREY Heavy Machine Gun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 28) S.A.S. (Forward Observer) Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, D-Charges / Pistol, AP + Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 21) S.A.S. (Forward Observer) Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, D-Charges / Pistol, AP + Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 21) CAMERONIAN Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / AP CC Weapon. (0 | 20) CAMERONIAN Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / AP CC Weapon. (0 | 20) GROUP 2 4 2 CATERAN T2 Sniper Rifle / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (1 | 23) WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse ( ) / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) HIGHLANDER GREY T2 Boarding Shotgun, Grenades, Smoke Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 20) CALEDONIAN MORMAER (NCO, X Visor) T2 Rifle, Chain-colt ( ) / Heavy Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 36) CALEDONIAN MORMAER Heavy Machine Gun, Chain-colt / Heavy Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 40) 112 MOTORIZED Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 18) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Just march up the links and rely on the burst 5 to push through. For the core, if you lose a grey, you can still push forward. The SAS and Cameronians are to deal with things you can't burst through and the 112 is a fast specialist that can revive fallen Cameronians with the medikit. Is this feasible? Or would it fold pretty quickly?
It's vulnerable to all the usual stuff that counters pure burst; mimetic msv shooters +/- link bonuses like bolt snipers, grenzer, le muet for example but that's a faction problem, rather than a list problem.
Watching this thread, as I'm just starting off with CHA myself! Have been playing a little Vanilla YJ and some Steel Phalanx up till now. Keen to know what everyone thinks is a good "showcase" list for CHA - if there is one? - to help a new player experience some of the key units and interactions, rather than tailoring a list to a specific mission/opponent. Just to begin with. Lots of good advice up there already - thanks all!
