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The Avatar points hike is wrongheaded.

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Hecaton, Aug 4, 2022.

  1. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    How many Imetrons and Netrods do we need to sacrifice in order to get a damned change log (or even just a list of all the data file changes)?
     
  2. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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  3. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    I feel like the point increase of imetrons could've been accompanied with a buff to their PH for landing.
     
  4. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    But they always get on the table, they really don't need better PH.

    As a player that fought many times against CA in different editions, even in our last tournament on Saturday, I'm happy with the little changes to Avatar and Imetrones.


    PozdRawiam / Greetings
     
  5. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Ok, but do you think that CA lists with the Avatar were winning more than CA lists without the Avatar? Because I see the opposite.
     
    #25 Hecaton, Aug 5, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
  6. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member

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    Nothing particularly technical mate, faction wise, some factions have good access to cc beasts with smoke to get in and kill it, some have msv2 big guns with smoke to keep it honest, some factions can hide from its rage in camo etc. Then some are old factions with limited tools for dealing with such a monster, or have other limitations like obvious LTS or limited Ava units that can contest the avatar that are vulnerable to a speculo run.
    As for players, some people like playing dark souls, some people like playing kids games on easy mode. Starting your game in LoL with half your order pool dead or unconscious with a non-interactive system like impersonation and then getting hosed by a mim6 battle-tag is rough to be on the receiving end of, especially if you've had a shit week at work and just wanna roll dice and have a beer with a mate on a Friday night.
    I've seen avatars used in events back when I was a warcor and it's rough for the noob to receive that level of a kicking just because their chosen faction didn't pass the gear check at list creation (because of faction design) or because they lost the initiative roll or because of highly un-interactive mechanisms like impersonation.
    Us guys that have been playing years know what's coming when all we see across the board is a few imetrons and the cheapest line troop specialists going down and that's about it lol.
     
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  7. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Sounds like more of a problem with Impersonation than the Avatar, otherwise the Cutter would be doing it too. And HB has 0 swc impersonators.

    But there are a number of other setups which are more egregious gear checks than what you describe - the difference is that some loud Australians don't have CB's ear on the topic. It smack of making the game less balanced to appease a few loud people on the internet.
     
  8. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it's more the particular intersection of impersonation and the avatar in the same list. The synergy of using the speculo to gut the key piece that can deal with the avatar or gut an obvious lieutenant with very little ability to stop it is why I call it the double-dick-punch. One of them is a challenge to work around but both is very very difficult to manage, especially on tournament boards where you haven't got control of how the terrain is managed.
    I agree, some big gear checks have come into the game over the years and it's def created tiers of factions that have and those that have-not.
    Thankfully ITS missions don't often reward tabling opponents early in events as you're after scoring points on mission objectives rather than eliminating the enemy. If the TO picks missions that are "direct action" in old parlance though, it's game on for the double-dick-punch
     
  9. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    I disagree pretty hard with this view.

    Bear & friends are great against Null Deploy and thats fine, but the problem is that they are incredibly effective against players not null deploying too, and I feel you need very specific pieces to be able to resist them at all.
     
  10. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    OTOH those d-charge kills are so satisfying... :D
     
  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    How are they getting past MSV snipers?
     
  12. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Against the Überfallkommando that won’t help, she’s got Eclipse. Against a Bearpode, it can still be possible to bypass, since it’s not generally considered good table design to have one sniper tower that can see literally the entire board. You can also use a shooting unit to clear out the one or two long range MSV units before unleashing your attack run.
     
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  13. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    Bears can simply risk the dodge using a large target number, high wounds and total IMM. I've seen a lot of bears survive a lot of ARO just through this method, tanking their way through that one gap in their avenue of approach and then carrying on to their target. The Chimera doesn't really need explaining, if the table allows it at all then trying to actively contest her with a BS attack isn't in the cards.

    The alternative is simply killing them. Most MSV snipers are not very strong profiles defensively and have to rely on a kind table for positions where they can see any use. This allows the option of simply killing it with some random decent HMG or using Uxia, who is exceedingly efficient at it and has limited counterplay.
     
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  14. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member

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    Their dodge is as good or better than most snipers shooting in +3 range. Even if the sniper hits, they're only rolling one dice and have decent enough armour that they might pass the save. They can eat a wound and keep going no bother.
    Only sniper they won't fancy their chances against are viral sniper rifles, especially lunah and nikoul for their msv too.
     
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  15. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member

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    Yeah totally agree on uberfall too, eclipse smoke is non-interactive and with a decent order pool the opponent just has to sit back and take it as they can't shoot it and they'll easily dodge through a minefield or sacrifice a pupnik to clear a few to punch a hole.
    Eclipse was the reason tohaa did so well in ITS, they could elect to go second, get spanked all game then just eclipse over the objectives and play their own game without worrying about their opponent getting a chance to contest.
     
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  16. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Look, this thread is just good old fashioned faction shithousery, the Avatar got nerfed, everyone who faces an Avatar is glad, everyone who plays the Avatar cries salty tears, we drink those delicious tears, we all move on
     
  17. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Well, not to move goal posts or over-complain, but on the bear tangent I find their Climb+ to be the source of extreme agony while deploying. Can't really null deploy vs fast Climb+ units and often they can get past tactical AROs they don't want to make
    [​IMG]
    ?
     
  18. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I play OCF, I don't use the Avatar. I'd rather face an Avatar list than an optimized CA list that doesn't include it.
     
  19. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I think it's still a matter of people not wanting to post up ARO pieces and then complaining when they get blitzed.

    Overall, though, they should change Immunity: Total so it doesn't provide resistance to nonlethal ammo.
     
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  20. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Sure, because flashlights versus werewolves is just so enjoyable in turn.
     
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