Haqqislam Competitive List Analysis [One Year of Online Events]

Great writeup.

I guess they're probably about to be eliminated and replaced with some totally different unit also called Daylami, so I guess it's timely.

I started bringing one at your suggestion. I almost never get to jam anyone with him, but it's hard to measure the extent to which he protects an area because the opponent just doesn't go there at all. I'm finding that I like having him, even though I have a hard time assessing his value.

I was surprised at the low Digger numbers until I remembered they didn't exist for part of the dataset. To me they're auto-includes and they've only gotten better as I've gotten used to them.

And not ranged AROs, though I think that describes most factions these days. I did see Armand in one of the above lists.

I use it less and less in the active turn (too order intensive) but it really helps with DZ defense, especially since I'm bringing 3 repeaters anyway (Fanous, Rafiq, Saladin). I bring Hunzakuts to push buttons and drop repeaters, and have never used one to FO although it's not a crazy idea. The Nadhir is an FO ARO once he runs out of Flammenspears (he doesn't have a Flash Pulse) and the GML bot pairs well with that, too.

Liberto is great because it's a speedbump in ARO, but a strong attacker in the active turn. One of your posts was what got me excited about it initially. 1 SWC hurts, though. I always feel like I'm building 5 SWC lists because I don't want to give up the Liberto.

Ghazi's purpose isn't to be a speedbump, although for sure I'd rather my opponent have to go through one before they can reach my expensive stuff.

This was really interesting to see. You and I are both big proponents of having a long-range gun, but apparently better players disagree! I'm amused to have been the only one to have brought a Shakush in any of the lists.

He just meshes so perfectly with all the irregulars.

 

I'm also the only one bringing Fiddler, I guess. I'm still on the fence about her. She can really shine in button-pushing missions, but I think bringing her in Decap was probably a mistake.

 

Huh. I am surprised that Daylami are losing popularity.

CB has shown a willingness to modify too strong profiles. I wonder if Zuleyka will be edited or if they will combine the sisters and make you take them as a duo.

 

Chime, great stuff. Thank you for what you are doing for the community and writing this up. I really enjoy the competitive part of this game. Shoot, I was watching a YouTube vid randomly as I was making a long trip and the content creator name dropped your for assisting them with a quick and easy data sheet when playing.

I’m curious, do you have any data on HB or RTF?

And, base off this analysis will you be altering your lists in any way?

 

Great write up, perfect timing for a retrospective with Black Wind.
Surprised I cheeked it into this as Needle/Thread are lists very rough around the edges.

I take the package a lot as it gives us a number of units in the 15-20 point range to pad out a list. Its a cheap backup plan we are half competent at. I think taking diggers or something else instead is super valid.

Good, I want to keep tinkering

 

The Saladin data was interesting. I personally love him, but I feel like a lot of people agree with you on him, so I was surprised that he was so prevalent. I'd have guessed to see him in maybe 25% of the lists, although 100% of mine.

My arguments in his favour, FWIW:
- Order economy is king. Having an 11th regular order in group one on all three turns is an enormous advantage.
- His list-swapping and +1CT skills also contribute to order economy, especially in a faction with lots of irregulars, although they're not as important as the extra order.
- Holding back 2 models is also nice, but it's the least important part of Strategos.
- His repeater helps guard the DZ, especially if you have a GML bot.
- He's actually one of our more resilient Lts. Our Lt is generally pretty obvious anyway, so why not take one who's relatively hard to assassinate. I've stopped bringing the Farzan CoC and still rarely wind up in LoL, usually only when I've already lost the game anyway.
- He's a way to use points on attacking strength (because he provides orders to attack pieces) that doesn't cost SWC. My lists are pretty SWC-starved - if I take Liberto, Barid, Asawira, GML, Knauf, that's all my SWC gone and I still have a lot of points left over. What to spend them on? We have plenty of other useful expensive units but they all cost SWC - Mukhtar RF, hackers, Shihab, Armand, etc. Saladin is a way to spend points supporting my existing attack pieces even though I'm out of SWC.

That said, he's not the only way to play. I could use those extra SWC-less points to overload on skirmishers instead. Fiddler is another useful expensive piece that doesn't cost SWC. Or if I take a Shakush instead of Knauf, points are a lot tighter. I still fit in Saladin but I have to give up more to do it.

I tried playing without it for a while and mostly didn't miss it. I was convinced to put it back in after a game against Khavrion (@ isn't working, he must have a different ITS name) in which he had first turn and moved a link to a vantage on my side of the table with Phoenix overlooking my whole DZ. The only tool I had to deal with him was Knauf, but he was inside 16" so it would have been 3 dice on 7s against 2 on 8s. Not odds I want to take in the active turn. A GML bot would have done the job pretty easily (and also would have forced him to spread his whole link out more).

A Mukhtar RF would have also been acceptable (as Khavrion pointed out after the game). She's 56% to wound Phoenix, so likely I spend 2 orders forcing him prone, which is good - maybe even better than the GML bot which would spend a lot more orders but kill Phoenix. Mukhtar is also a lot more points, doesn't have the defensive benefits of the GML, and has a lot of redundancy with the Asawira I'm already bringing.

I guess what I'm saying is that I need something to deal with some unusual targets, and GML and Mukhtar are both reasonable options to do it. I'm likely to stick with the GML for now, but it's definitely not an auto-include.

As for how it works: spread your repeaters around the DZ (fanous, rafiq, saladin), hide your GML on a roof, hide your hacker. Dare your opponent to rambo in your DZ. On turn 2 or 3 when the big guns are gone, stand up the GML and it becomes a surprisingly effective ARO just by being a missile launcher. 95% of games, those are the only things it does (it's a really minor part of the list, not like a CA pitcher list for example). The other 5%, you also use it in the active turn by placing a repeater (Hunzakut, Barid pitcher, or more likely, move up a Fanous or linked Rafiq) and spending a lot of orders to remove a problem unit.

Is that enough to make it worthwhile? I don't know. I already have 3 repeaters, a pitcher, and a hacker, so adding a GML for 16 points feels pretty reasonable. But the SWC cost is significant.

 

This was an interesting breakdown, @HeadChime - thanks for putting it together.

It's also interesting to see where there's similarity and difference between how I play and how the players of those 22 lists do. After some experimentation I'm back onboard my beloved Asawira Doctor train, for example, which is a piece that as far as I can tell features in exactly zero of those lists above because the AP Spitfire is so prevalent by comparison. I don't think I'll adjust my lists on that front (I tried the Asawira Spitfire, it's not for me), but looking at the list above I now want to give some more time to Diggers and... sigh I guess Hunzakuts. I don't want to like them because you can only take so many irregulars even with Saladin so taking one means reducing the depth of my Kum bucket, but they're worth trying.

 

I feel like skirmishers in general are in a bad spot. DTWs are everywhere. I can't remember the last time I took a Farzan, for example, because it feels like a trading piece but 23+ points is a little too much to comfortably trade with. Particularly since I could do the same trade with a Liberto, Daylami, or yeah, Kum.

A Hunzakut clocks in at just cheap enough to feel ok for trading. Ok, but not great. To earn her points I feel like she has to push a button, drop a mine or repeater, and trade, which definitely doesn't happen every game.

I don't actually find that I bring Hunzakuts all that often. I do have two of them in one of the above lists, but that was a custom mission with 9 (!) buttons to push so it was sort of a special case. These days I'm more likely to use Fiddler and a linked Rafiq as my main button-pushers.

 

The numerous and varied things I did and did not want to type in that sentence will stay between me and god :P

 

@QueensGambit you've extolled the praises of Diggers some. Noting that I use Bikers a lot, what's the Haqq-specific use case for one and what have you found their high and low watermarks to be?

 

Basically they're just really optimized cheerleaders. The advantages over Kum is that they guard corners really well, and they generate regular orders. Kum don't have any defensive value that I've found (with those big silhouettes they just get shot from outside 8" if they try to guard corners). Diggers are also great attackers, but I agree you'll use them less for attacking if you also have a bucket full of Kum. But if I wasn't attacking with my Diggers, I would probably still take them purely as defensive cheerleaders.

The only thing Haqq-specific about them is that we don't have any other optimized cheerleaders to compete for the slots. I'd rather a 14-point Digger than an 11-point Ghulam to fill out my list. Whereas if I were playing, say, Ariadna, a Digger would still be great but a Rokot might be even better.

High watermark is probably using them to body-block Saladin from CC assassins - they're particularly good for that role. Low watermark is that if you overextend them, they can die to high burst almost as quickly as a Ghulam. In particular, I need to curb my tendency to use their Impetuous orders and then leave them out in the open because I don't want to spend another order hiding them.

...Well, the real high water mark was when one rolled an HMG, climbed a building in the midfield, and tore through my opponent's backline. But I don't rate Booty as a consideration at all - it's too random. I assess Diggers on the assumption that they'll roll grenades.

 

Some thoughts on units:

SML - Haqq has good shooting, but they don’t have the overwhelming firepower some other factions can bring. For that reason, I think SML really work in Haqq. If I am facing down atalanta and didn’t bring a tag - my best bet is a Fiday. However, if I didn’t go first, my best bet is probably a SML. Its extremely order intensive, but its consistent. Also, trading 7-8 orders for a single model seems like a fair enough trade that I don’t mind using SML in the active turn. Otherwise, like @QueensGambit said, the SML is an excellent deterrent/clean up for anything that pushed too far into my DZ (spotlighting in ARO, then spending the first order of my next turn to drop a missile).

Saladin – Strategoes basically gives you an extra 4 command tokens because it allows you to hold back an unit and because it lets you move a unit for free at the start of the turn. Additionally, having an extra regular order each turn is great. I really think Saladin is the glue that holds Haqq together and allows my lists to have 5 irregulars pretty consistently.

Jammer Mutt – I started bringing this guy instead of Daylami because Bears were so prevalent in my meta and I wanted something that could work against them. I particularly like the 10pt jammer because I like having the extra smoke thrower in my list.

Mukhtar Red Fury – Just the best gun fighter in Haqq IMO. Does so much work.

Kum bikers – Really great for their points. They can sandbag or go kill things and you don’t care when they die.

Fiddler – I have struggled to get good use out of her in any missions besides Panic Room/ The Armory. Shas pretty great in those missions however

 

I agree that they cannot really dive in like they used to, but I still like them because marker state is so powerful, button pushing is still a thing, and like you already said, trading against an attacker is usually worth the cost because they're the one who had to spend orders to get to you.

I forgot to mention this, but since the fireteam changes, I have been bringing one of these pretty often and its really really great paired with an Asawira or Mukhtar. I want to push up with those units anyways so brining a template weapon button pushing repeater along is just a bonus.

 

They're the Libertos of N4. Stupidly optimised Merc profile that's overly available to basically way too many factions.

 

I think you'll find that the Libertos is the Libertos of N4.

 

The Libertos is naturally still a very good option but it does have one drawback coming into N4 (its loss of mimetism in camo state aside) which as you've already touched upon, there is a greater tax on picking up irregular units and a limit to how many aren't a detriment. The Diggers being Regular means they're much more auto include than the Libertos this edition which needs more of a decision made about it.

To quote someone else on Diggers: