Yeah sadly the YH is still pretty boring in comparison to others of it's type. Bioimmunity is a joke considering many others have ARM5 and BTS6-9. Give him the same BTS and I'll be impressed. But that's all another issue. It's really not bad for an ARO or attack piece. The team has the ZY medic to keep him up and is survivable himself. The Pango of course is just for filler. My problem is that it's expensive in an already expensive force. We do have access to a lot more Wildcard troops to join the team but they are all more expensive and may not be helpful. I would however try changing out the Pangu to a Haidao sniper. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 YĀN HUǑ FTO Missile Launcher(+1B) / CC Weapon, Heavy Pistol. (1.5 | 42) ZÚYǑNG (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / CC Weapon, Breaker Pistol(+1B). (0 | 28) PANGGULING FTO (Repeater) Light Shotgun ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 12) 1.5 SWC | 82 Points Open in Infinity Army YĀN HUǑ FTO MULTI Heavy Machine Gun / CC Weapon, Heavy Pistol. (1.5 | 48) ZÚYǑNG (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / CC Weapon, Breaker Pistol(+1B). (0 | 28) PANGGULING FTO (Repeater) Light Shotgun ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 12) 1.5 SWC | 88 Points Open in Infinity Army Now for comparison. Teams listed in price order. At first this seems ridiculous for the price but then I realized this team at least looses it's Imp and Ireg orders. The smoke seemed good but then it can also screw up their own line of site. I'm more concerned about the Red Fury one assaulting with the Morlocks. But the thing that's good is that's so cheap, it doesn't hurt the rest of the force too much. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 1 2 2 TASKMASTER Heavy Machine Gun, Shock Mines / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 48) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Assault Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 6) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Assault Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 6) 1.5 SWC | 60 Points Open in Infinity Army This now is the crazy one. Burst 3 Feuerbach with MSV1. Medic to keep the Kaitok up. The filler vanguard to could be changed to Dartok to give some hacking protection and still be cheap. This also the ONLY team that doesn't count as a mixed fireteam! +3 Discover with an MSV1! ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 KAITOK (Multispectral Visor L1) Feuerbach ( ) / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 36) MORAT VANGUARD (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16) MORAT VANGUARD Combi Rifle / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14) 1.5 SWC | 66 Points Open in Infinity Army Weak-ish gun in comparison to all of the others but good on the attack. As most JSA it wants to get in close. Once it does, it's murder time. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 DAIYŌKAI Red Fury, Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP + DA CC Weapon. (1 | 49) KEISOTSU (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11) KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 9) 1 SWC | 69 Points Open in Infinity Army Not much variety to it. Little can mix with the team but it's not bad for the price. The team has a medic to keep it going for a little bit. Rosie also has a LRL. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 BLACKJACK AP Heavy Machine Gun, Chest Mines, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 38) 112 FTO Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) ROSIE Light Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 22) 1.5 SWC | 72 Points Open in Infinity Army To me this seems a pretty good team for getting in close. Keil has lower ARM in comparison but 3 wounds and 2 Paramedics. But of course this is an assault unit and not meant for ARO. It can further be supported by Symbiobombs or mates. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 KIEL-SAAN Red Fury, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 46) KAAURI Sentinel FTO (Paramedic) Combi Rifle, E/M Mines ( | MediKit [+1B]) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 16) KAAURI Sentinel FTO (Paramedic) Combi Rifle, E/M Mines ( | MediKit [+1B]) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 16) 1.5 SWC | 78 Points Open in Infinity Army This is a great team for the points. Burst 4 Feurbach, a fantastic doctor and cheap filler. Rouhani can be switched out for a Sekban doctor for a few more points so you are not using Rouhani just for him. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 AZRA'IL Feuerbach(+1B) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 44) ROUHANI Submachine Gun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 21) HAFZA Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15) 1.5 SWC | 80 Points Open in Infinity Army I guess the eqivalent to the YH. The Infirmarer is healing the Boyg on the same roll as our medic. Anges is about as usefull as the Pango. I'd be more scared if it was joined by a Nisse or Karhu. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 BØYG Missile Launcher / Heavy Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 47) INFIRMARER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 25) AGNES Submachine Gun, Nanopulser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14) 1.5 SWC | 86 Points Open in Infinity Army An expensive team in a expensive force. I think you might be shooting yourself in the foot with this. However with the doctor in there it might get up over and over again. However this ties up the doctor just for hm. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 FASID Heavy Machine Gun, Grenade Launcher, Smoke Grenade Launcher, Shock Mines / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 53) ROUHANI Submachine Gun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 21) LEILA SHARIF (Hacker) Shock Marksman Rifle, E/M Mines, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 20) 1.5 SWC | 94 Points Open in Infinity Army So the first Burst 6 troop. Luckily it's an an expensive team that could hurt the rest of the force if taken. The HMG is good but but not fantastic in comparison to a AP weapon. The rest of this team doesn't support him much other than being repeaters and Sensor. Anything else pushes the price up even more. The is also a Minimum of one Hollow Men. The Tinbot or Hacker Tinbot would probably be a better choice. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 KRIZA BORAC Heavy Machine Gun / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 54) HOLLOW MEN Combi Rifle, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28) STEMPLER ZOND FTO (Super-Jump) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 17) 1.5 SWC | 99 Points Open in Infinity Army Really expensive and can only get more expensive. It's not in cheap of a force either. Also with that gun it wants to get close and the others on the team don't. Sure it's Burst 6 but man you are paying for it. I could only make it 3pts cheaper by not taking the medic Vet Kazak. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 RATNIK AP Spitfire(+1B), Panzerfaust(+1B), Flammenspeer(+1B) / AP Heavy Pistol, Trench-Hammer, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 50) VETERAN KAZAK (Paramedic) T2 Rifle, Light Flamethrower ( | MediKit) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 39) COLONEL VORONIN Rifle / Assault Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 20) 1.5 SWC | 109 Points Open in Infinity Army
I wouldn't, personally, bank on a Paramedic keeping an important unit up. For the Yan Huo fireteams, I would either replace the Zuyong with a Gongcheng to keep the team as cheap as possible and then have a Yisheng stick a Yaozao nearby, or I would kit the team out to be an assault team and replace the Dog and whether the Zuyong gets to stay wouldn't be an attempt to keep the Fireteam up. I'd also note that the Kiel-Saan has significantly lower damage than the others and is more or a melee unit, while the Daiyokai actually keeps up decently thanks to the extra damage, but I would probably value the Multi ammo from the other profile over the extra burst. The Kaitok is also very interesting. I do think that in this comparison of Harises it ends up somewhere in the bottom owing to their very Sun Tze level BS. However, Kaitok can also into Core for Sixth Sense where a Yaogat or Raktorak can keep the integrity going if the Kaitok eats the dirt and let the Paramedic have a good chance of bringing the Kaitok back up again. Of all of these I find the Az'rail Haris to probably be the strongest.
────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 KAITOK (Multispectral Visor L1) Feuerbach ( ) / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 36) KAITOK Chain Rifle(+2B), Flammenspeer / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 22) RINDAK FTO (Paramedic) Submachine Gun, Flash Pulse(+1B) / Heavy Pistol, PARA CC Weapon. (0 | 27) 1.5 SWC | 85 Points Open in Infinity Army With native B2 medkit Rindak can heal Kaitoks in B2B with 91% to succed. Due to his own NWI he can risk 88% heal on himself. Other than that you get B4 dam14 chainrifle/ B4 dam15 Heavy pistol fork in 8in, 6-2 team with decent specialist, sensor, long range guns, close range murder, tanky bois that can be healed quite easily. If I were to play Morats this is the 1st haris I would try.
Shooting would reduce chances as you can miss 1 and then fail 1. Just stick the needle in for guaranteed 2 rolls. Unless Medkit (B+1) only works with BS mode and not in B2B...
I'm like... 60% sure you don't get the burst bonus unless you're shooting. I made a question about it in the rules forum.
Teh Gongcheng can't be in a Yan Huo team. The Zuyong can be part of the team as well being the medic. I could have just done two Panggu FTO but the savings you get doesn't give you that much for elsewhere. Sure could have a doctor nearby but the upgrade of Zuyong to medic was just a couple points. Im also thinking of him as mobile piece too. Not just standing there shooting stuff. Then the Zuyong is a little better.
Medikit is only considered a BS Weapon/BS Attack when used remotely, so Fireteam bonuses will not apply when using it in silhouette contact
Fair enough on the Gongcheng. I'm just saying that Paramedics by design of these Fireteams are going to be crap at recovering the main dude. They're good button pushers, but if you want to recover the S5 you want a Doctor nearby or a Paramedic in a second Haris, a Core, or with natural +1B. Oh, and Panggo are... bad. It's the base. Terrible for placement, terrible for movement. They've fallen out of favour with me something fierce. Forces the team it's in to be a stationary turret way too often.
I think those Panggos have a place; IA just doesn't have cheap templates they can use to protect their DZ. If I were going second I'd post them up on the tightest corners I could find and just lay out plates on anything that came nearby. But for the reasons you listed I would absolutely not link them if I were going first -- backfills only unless I needed the VP in a zone. Apropos of that, has anyone given the HRMC Yan Huo a try in IA yet? It's got comparable firepower to a Shang Ji in a mixed core but is a little more mobile without having to drag a fragile core around. Admittedly, I'm having some trouble fitting in into a list -- I've played it to some success in vanilla, but there's just so many bases for IA to cover that it almost feels like a luxury, y'know?
nope because Shang Ji has an extra order for the points plus packs the Tinbot. I can't even justify it playing 400 points.
Yeah honestly I can't disagree. Shang Ji's got so many perks that I'm happy to drag a couple Zhanshi around for the bonus Burst and leave the rest at home. How are you building your IA lists? Are you missing the +2 BS if you're mixing your links?
I'm mixing my links, haven't really felt the loss of the extra 2 BS, however few people have been playing pure core links. I have run into the Bolt Sniper doing its thing as a BS19 ARO piece but I've refused to fight it each time and just worked around it. Even if I was running a pure link that'd still be kinda shit to fight into anyway, even before the fireteam change the Hac Tao hacker was actually one of the best profiles to take that thing head on with the lowest risk. The Hulang MR is actually pretty decent in even in a Haris at tackling the Bolt btw. Depends how your tables are set up but if a desirable castle position has an alternative path to engage from under 16" it's a an ok option to go head on with it. If it's core linked it's actually one of the best options to handle it. That is very table dependant though.
I've come to the same conclusions against the Bolt and Grenzer, and now the Zhayedan, links too. Even before the changes I went around them as much as possible -- the few times I did brawl them down I did so with a Yan Huo in vanilla with a doctor nearby, so I never really felt any risk. Every other time I just played around them and disassembled the link as soon as they left their castle. PanO players are welcome to blow half their points on a defensive brick I'll never intentionally engage with though.
I ran an IA Frostbyte list with a mixed core, Yan Huo HRMC, Daoying hacker, and some supporting REMs recently. The main link was Shanger APHMG, Krit multi rifle, Zuyong paramedic, Shanger HRL, and Haidao sniper. The Yan Huo did solid work, one-shotting a non-impetuous Montesa in cover and making a long diagonal firelane a no-go zone. He and the hacking threat from two nearby REMs in cover held down my entire left flank while my big link handled the right. I like the solo HRMC if I’m only running one big link, or two three-man links, since he’s damn near a Haris on his own, albeit without any cool tricks like specialist or a secondary template weapon option.
I thought about this for Vanilla but the argument always came back to I could have one order of BS14 B5 rounds of shooting at something, or, I could have two orders of BS13 B4 shooting at stuff. Never really managed to justify the Yan Huo over the Shang Ji in Vanilla either. The tinbot and flexibility of TacAw providing more orders always won me over.
Yeah, the obvious Yan Huo fix was missed again. Just delete the redundant FTO profiles and let it link in the haris with the HRMC already! It's pure gimmick is the big linkable weapon, just let it use it! The Kriza has a burst 6 core linkable hmg and it still hasn't caused a world dice shortage, so time to just pull the band aid off and let the Yan Huo also be ridiculous. Anyway, here's a fun looking core/haris. Shang Ji shoots good at range, Hulang shoots good up close, if you get in ZoC the tinbot zhanshi can spotlight something and the Hulang can huck an e/m grenade onto it. You can also bump it up to a core for turn one with a couple of cheap Zhanshi ARO ML, then walk off and leave them on a roof. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 1 SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) AP Heavy Machine Gun, Chain-colt ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 49) HÚLÁNG FTO Submachine Gun(+1B), E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 36) ZHANSHI (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 16) 2 SWC | 101 Points Open in Infinity Army
Does it need the link? The HRMC seems to me to be able to produce more/on par with almost every link you've example you've provided as alternative?
Yeah, let's not have a HRMC in a link please. The Yan Huo may not be an optimized choice nowadays but he's far from unusable. A BS14 2W ARM5 HRMC will win FTFs against many targets and you still have 252 points left to support him and accomplish other goals.
