On one hand you say : And a bit later : Isn't it quite the same? Shouldn't we also challenge this opinion about what we assume being intrinsic TAG weaknesses? :)
Well, Guijia, Blue Wolf and O-Yoroi are a thing so having a TAG be melee competent isn't itself a problem, but the Gator effectively closes other attack venues such as hacking by virtue of both having ECM and being Corregidor in addition to melee, and also comes in at a price that'll leave a lot of breathing room for supporting units for the Gator in the comparison. But still. What if we accepted that the Gator is fine and that TAGs should be stronger for their points and have access to gear and abilities that might not necessarily be typical for their faction - what'd need to be done to bring other TAGs abreast of the Gator? Preferably without making the Australian meta the new world wide cookie cutter meta, of course!
That's an interesting question, and I'll love to see how it is answered (no ideas myself, I'm afraid). One caveat, though. Not all the TAGs should be abreast with Gator. Gator is basically an example of what we generally agreed on the forum - years ago - to classify as an MBT (Main Battle TAG). While I have no set-in-stone definition for a MBT at hand, things like Gecko, Anaconda, Scarface's Ramhorn, and several others were generally considered to not qualify as MBTs. So, if we could stick to comparing apples to apples, and leave the odd orange out of the discussion... ;)
I'm wary of this, as it could end in TAGs dominating gameplay too much. But assuming that this can be done without overdoing it, I'd start with upgrading PanO TAGs ;)
I think what the traditional definition of an MBT was 14+ BS, 8 ARM, 6+ BTS, 3 STR and no inherent MODs like Mimetism. O-Yoroi usually got in on a technicality. I think people aren't exactly overwhelmed about most of the newer "basic" TAGs, so it might be good to update them as well. Not abreast with the Gator, but to a similar degree that the Gator is better than the traditional MBTs (read: Lizard) without paying for the improvements. That is to say, probably between 10 and 15 points worth of extras, depending a bit on what certain abilities are valued (I think that I value NBW higher than CB does). Here's an example of what I'm thinking would be neat: Blue Wolf gains a Tinbot Firewall and a point of PH while the dodge fixed value is removed and the pilot gains Berserk +3 and a DA CCW In other words, not abreast with the Gator, but further defining and expanding each TAG's own role. This could also be a dirt cheap TAG, which is a role the Lizard could slot into by simply getting as cheap as the Iguana. The latter could put a greater emphasis on the competency of the heavy infantry inside. Etc. They set this ball rolling with the alterations they did at the start of N4 when the Squalos stopped being the same as Guijia stopped being the same as Raicho stopped being the same as a slightly more expensive Maggy, etc.
Hmm. Makes me think something could be done re: dodge scores related to Pilot/Remote Presence. Physical pilots a point or two higher due to lag/physical presence/etc.
Whats the australian meta? I'll get the ball rolling with a couple of opening ideas; Bultrak Move autocannon to Raicho, remove HRMC, disregard entire profile lol Smoke Launcher (?), H.Shotgun, and CC capabilities. "A big metal bear" Spitfire with CC capabilities and hacking resistance, 6-6 MOV, -1 ARM "A weaker, cheaper Morat Sphinx" This TAG overlaps heavily with the Raicho, despite it's model looking like a fierce predator with big sword hands. I'd rather see it go the Blue Wolf route as quoted above or full on into a big, shotgunny, punchy asshole. I'm torn on the smoke launcher. Smoke is standard for this type of unit, but I also think bears are a shit design element in the game. Going smokeless makes the profile more interesting but risks it just being terrible. Raicho Recieve Autocannon+1B profile ECM Guided (-9) This TAG has two main themes - massive firepower (in the lore) and resistance to anti-TAG counters (in-game mechanics). HRMC is already covered by the Overdron and don't want to sideline that. The Autocannon profile from the Bultrak makes a ton of sense here. It already resists hacking and oblivion, so to play into that I would up it's anti-guided tech but leave it vulnerable to CC. Lizard Recieve a guided weapon Lose stats and capabilities and cost - the "cheap, obsolete MBT" Grenade Launcher has HFT - this gear is not good enough to warrant a dedicated platform now Could be the guided MHMG mentioned earlier or like an attached GML or GRL. I typically don't love GML play so am hesitant to strengthen it, but it would also be interesting to see that strategy slotted into a TAG platform instead of the stock standard missile in the corner of the map. I also think there is room, especially in Nomads, for a cheaper and crappier MBT. This fits well with the theme of retrofitting random crap they find lying about. 100%. But challenge is different from throw them all out the window in one go, and replace them with nothing.
I have a hard time imagining that a unit with 14+ BS will get Guided for automatic hit rolls. AFAIK the best you can get currently is 13 before the Guided mod (missile bots with Rem Driver boosts)
Is 20s to hit meaningfully different than 17s? Honestly I dont feel it is. I dont think the difference between guided and guided (BS=11) will be the thing that makes or breaks the design
Guided ignores MODs other than its own +6, ECM on the target and Tinbots on the target. BS 12 is the best you can get. Yes, it is somewhat significant. It'll increase your chance to hit by 9.5 per cent units (which means you're reducing your risk of not hitting by over 60% provided the opponent dodges and 100% if they try to reset out of Targeted - and since you're shooting at no risk to yourself almost everytime you use this your only worry is missing). If you stick it on the grenade launcher it's a lot less impactful, however, since you're lowering the damage probability compared to a GML by almost an order of magnitude. A small contributing reason why GMLs weren't all that popular in N3 was that the GML only had DA and not EXP ammo type - not the primary reason, but a contributing reason.
Upgrade the lizard with a new model and lower it to 65 pts. Thats all it needs I feel. Its supposed to be a bare bones expendable tag, that is cheap yet still effective for what it does, You dont need to build around it, and Bakunin units are so cheap you still have lots to do if you lose it. The mhmg is still a great gun and its a tag so it can use it well. the flamethrower profile is great and the HGL profile is table dependent, but useful sometimes. It doesnt need to be more.
Personally love the ol' Lizard model, has that Japanese anime weird vibe. Would appreciate another Nomad TAG, why not the Lizard, with built in Repeater, just 'cause. And Smoke grenade launcher. THE Nomad support TAG. OK, also with a big gun... Or, could kit out the Lizard with Imp-2, the Chameleon variant
65pts is as much as an Iguana costs. When it goes to the bang for your buck, I'm pretty much convinced a Lizard beats an Iguana every day. If you are to suggest dropping an Iguana another 10pts, well, then it lands on the Gecko's price level. And as far as I understeand, there is a general consensus that the Gecko is appropriately priced for what it brings to the table. Whether the Iguana would do better it is was a taller, faster, heavier armed TAG competing against Gecko in the same price level, I can't really say. Well... it is all fun and games, until a Lizard rolls up 20 on MetaChemistry table. PH 20 and Regeneration (on a STR model... well, could be expalined out as a "highly-efficient experimantal repair nanohive"), anyone? Sure, it could be solved by creating a different Metachemistry entries for TAGs.
Why are you guys talking about the Lizard? You should be buying the NEW POWERFUL Corregidor stuff. /s
How about sticking a nice exotic ammunition on the GL? With Speculative Fire being reduced to a bad joke and face-to-face with a GL being even dumber (think "worse than using Forward Observer"), would something crazy like Monofilament be going too far? It would threaten links and be absolutely lethal against targets locked down by E/M, Hacking or IMM-A, but be hard as hell to hit with if the target is able to actively fight back.
