we are at that now with just the standard HD and oblivion. One hacker and some repeaters can lockout the entire board with complete impunity. and the the effect of KHDs were wildly over exaggerated (something I argued about constantly at the time), though with redrum gone they would be fine to get some of their old power back, N3 trinity ignoring the BTS bonus was hardly killing the game.
"Almost no hacking aside from KHDs with rare exceptions" in N3 felt better as a backdrop than "Almost always a little bit of Hacking and sometimes it's the whole game". I don't think that dropping a Pitcher on a 55%, into winning a 50%-70% FTF roll into 66% Guided shots until you die is a good strategy. But if it works it suuuuuucks. N4 has a lot of those stupid niche strats that someone who doesn't give a damn might go for regardless of it being a good idea. Being on the defending side you have to prep for so many niche things, it's really annoying the heck out of me. At the absolute minimum Spotlight should be consumed by Guided shots.
You forget that "KhDs aRe RuInIng MuH GaEm" was a narrative pushed by a lot of people that either were looking for an excuse not to engage in hacking or greatly misunderstood hacking.
Hum... That "SoMeThInG iS RuInIng MuH GaEm" narrative thing sounds strangely familiar, where did I read that recently? :P That's why there are other ways than hacking to deal with strong hackers.
Also having ECM guided apply to anything with in ZOC is an interesting idea I have toyed around with in my head.
Dunno, still sounds quite familiar to me... ;) But to be perfectly clear, I'm of course not talking about everyone who is criticizing CB choices here.
other than going first and dropping a missile on them first what? go first and try to kill one of the most heavily and well defended assets on the board conventionally? Sure thats perfectly viable and I wont argue against stabbing or shooting them as a viable option WHEN YOU HAVE THE ACTIVE TO STOP THEM FIRST. But what happens when you go second? what other ways aside from camo and -6 tinbots (which are absurdly rare) do you have to defend against it. which is a point the very top tier morons keep missing, you cant go and shank the hacker if you are going second, and by that time you can it's too late. There is a difference of I'm going to ignore everything counter to my belief and decry something as bad because misplaced assesment, stupidity or laziness, that gets proven to be false constantly, the second they arent doing dumb shit, versus something that regardless of what happens outside some niche cases is always the same whom ever goes first with the missile wins.
Then again, your issue is not about Jazz but about something way more global. We're running in circles here, for several dozens of messages, it's really becoming pointless... I wouldn't mind a second Defiance... :p
They're not mutually exclusive. Part of the reason those global issues exist is because profiles like Jazz exist in sectorials like CJC.
As has already been said: no -6 tinbot, bts0, no trinity = gromez is easy to counter if she spams pitchers and repeaters everywhere. Jazz not at all.
Then why are these other profiles apparently not an issue (or at least, not one we're discussing) while Jazz is generating this crazy fuss? We named a few ones before, some were apparently considered even more difficult to deal with than Jazz, but it seems OK for most people. Just trying to point out that this entire debate would probably gain to be more depassionate and factual, as Jazz sole name became enough to trigger extreme reactions.
Jazz is the perfect storm of BTS6 in a faction with Tinbot -6, massive repeater coverage, X visor pitchers in core links. And also some of the most ludicrous gunfighters like the vostok
I can tell you this: a) she's in Corregidor b) in Corregidor, you can put her in a link with an Tinbot -6, making her almost impossible to hack c) she has a pitcher d) she's cheap e) people equate her with he GML-fun, I don't know why, because no data was brought up that only CJC does it and even if this would be the case, that CJC does is regularly e) the other factions are jealous of her Only problem with the whole story is: That's not Jazz' fault. You can do the same with a linked Interventor in Tunguska (if you are dropping your repeaters with a bot anyways) And because of the Interventor you even save the points of the Mobile Brigada with Tinbot. You can take Mary instead and now you are dealing with two top hackers instead of one.
The issue isn't Jazz. It's not that you can take Jazz in a -6 Tinbot link. It's that GML itself has no interactive gameplay for the other person on most tables. My table has interior spaces and stuff, so not so much an issue at home, but I can see why it's a problem for tournament play when most people just use little boxes of cardboard/mdf. Anyway, the solution should be to add interactivity to the guided munitions. The hacking game already has it, bring hackers, shoot hackers, etc. So instead of going in circles of Hacking -> Jazz -> Pitchers -> GML -> Hacking and so on why don't we address the one piece that has no interaction itself. How do we make Guided Munitions fun for both parties? Because they are boring to use, and suck to receive. I refuse to believe that there is no CIWS in the future. Or that we could not reintroduce the ability to hack guided munitions. That or just play with terrain that has internal areas...
I tried to get the discussion in this direction, but to no success. Everytime I said "you have no problem with Jazz, but with GML instead." it was always: "No, it's Jazz." Jazz is the DEVIL!!!
Tinbot -6 makes Jazz stronger and harder to assail. Interventor also doesn't get to go in a sectorial with Morans. Tunguska's passive starting repeater network and perimeter defenses is non existant compared to CJC, it's easier to storm TJC's castle hiding their hacker (or missile bot) than it is for someone trying to get through CJC's defenses. Jazz also has Trinity which is excellent when paired with the -6 Tinbot to defend herself against hackers as an ARO program. You're WIP-6 vs WIP17 Jazz, an Interventor is at best applying a -3 and will be WIP15. Do the math on who's harder to outhack. Which is pretty bloody stupid when TJC is supposed to be the superior hacking faction of the two sectorials.
You've been told time and again why Jazz is specially problematic but you either don't get it oe don't read it
