Just want to confirm, based on reading the following info from the new fireteam rules, that the Burst bonus stacks with that from Enhanced reaction. So a Dakini or other bot in a 3+ model fireteam will have a B3 ARO. https://infinitythewiki.com/Enhanced_Reaction
These rules have not changed. Answer is the same as before (which, IIRC, is that Enhanced Reaction modifies the final burst of the attack, not the burst before modifiers - someone correct me if this is wrong).
I'd like to have a more detailed answer about the timing of this program. Let me explain with an example: -Expend 1 order with your EVO device bot to give Enhanced Reaction to a dakini sniper (so its burst is now 2 on ARO) -End your turn -On your opponent's turn, an enemy troop generates a valid ARO from the dakini sniper. You declare BS Attack, so before allocating any burst, you have to check Fireteam Coherency to know which bonuses apply. You have other 2 dakinis in range, so the +1B applies to your already 2B, becoming B3. Is it how it is applied? Or does the Fireteam bonus apply first, and then the hacking program sets it to 2 regardless of what bonus previously had? RAW there is no good answer about the timing of the hacking program, so that's why I wanted a more elaborated reply. Thanks to everyone for your help!
As a counter point, ARO sets the burst to 1, just like how Enhanced sets it to 2, so you're saying the Fireteam bonus can't be applied in ARO at all? As another counter point, the reason why you didn't get an ARO burst of 3 with this combination before was that Enhanced Reaction was considered a MOD and the Fireteam rule prohibited stacking in ARO specifically. And the final argument is that Enhanced Reaction with a Fireteam bonus is generally speaking worse than Assisted Fire, unless the target is Impetuous
Yeah, I understand that Assisted Fire is generally superior, but I was intrigued to know if it was possible for remote troops in fireteams to reach long range B3, as this could open some nasty ARO game for those who have it available (especially linked unidrons with their plasma snipers), furthermore if you also apply some kind of rem-driver bonus like the Apsaras for Aleph.
ARO and Enhanced don’t set the burst value the same. ARO says: “Unless a Special Skill, Equipment or scenario rule states otherwise, AROs always have Burst B1. In such a situation, if the Reactive Trooper has a Burst value higher than one in ARO, they cannot split it amongst different targets.” Enhanced Reaction just says “grants the target REM a Burst value of 2 in ARO.” The ARO rules allow that under the “unless … states otherwise” clause, but Enhanced Reaction doesn’t explicitly permit or deny the 2 being modified. And that’s the problem. The ARO burst rules allow other rules to overrule it if they’re explicit about applying to ARO, so both the Fireteam ARO modifier and Enhanced Reaction work on their own.
I thought this didn’t work because of how the rules for fire team bonuses was written, explicitly prohibiting the burst bonus from stacking with anything that enhanced burst. Just checking it quickly, the old limitation has been removed. Instead a new description has replaced the old rules for fire team bonuses and a red box points out that fire team bonuses does stack with bonuses from, for example, hacking. Seems pretty clear that the bonus of burst 2 in reactive gained from enhanced reaction should stack with fire team bonuses. Might of course miss some rule elsewhere contradicting this..
And do you have a rules reference for where it says bonuses in ARO do not stack with each other unless otherwise specified? We know that both bonuses are allowed to be used in ARO, but since you're claiming they can't be used at the same time I'm curious what rule you're reading that says you're not allowed to use them together. Only rules I can find that look a bit like that are the ones specifically for skills and equipment on unit profiles where an ability inside a bracket with a fixed value is considered after all MODs, but Enhanced Reaction isn't written in such a manner - it's not a success value after all. I simply don't think the differences in sentence structure is enough to be a meaningful difference without the support of a rule that says this is meaningful.
The premise of this logic is that your earlier claims are correct, that's not the same thing as linking or quoting the rules that support your argument. Can you please just post the rules that support that there's a specific order of operation that would make a distinction between sources of burst MOD relevant?
The premise of this logic is that we can confirm and know Saturation works like that. If you want to argue ER stacking with Fireteam boni as result of the Fireteam Rule red box changing or whatever, you will have to accept that Saturation applying before splitting Burst associated with your line of argumentation. And it's a pretty strong argument against yours, assuming you are willing to accept taking on the implications on Saturation and don't want to present a counter arguement on why these are different scenarios. To me there is precedence that MODs apply in a strict Order, BS Weapon Burst first, BS Attack (Skill) after. That's the big one. Then there is circumstancial evidence that this didn't stack in N3, didn't stack in N4 so far. Wasn't explicitly mentioned as a possibility in Enhanced Reaction Is not the sole use case for Fireteam Boni stacking with other MODs, so has no direct implication that it should affect this specific combination in particular. It's a little weak of an argument to to claim "I don't provide the rules quotes" after you rip the quote from another thread. Gonna hand that stick back to you, go read the other thread or just look it up on the wiki yourself. Burden of proof is on you not on me. I made my point, go dissect and disprove it rather than making your own laziness into an argument against me please?
This is not at all the argument being put forth. The argument is that the source of MOD and the order of MOD does not matter unless the rule specifically say otherwise. Saturation say otherwise by stating what order it is applied in, but that isn't transferable to other rules. Enhanced Reaction doesn't say otherwise, so that should still stack. I took it from the other thread because I got tired of having an argument off topic when I had provided a handy link for where it was the topic Not at all how this works. The argument "this side" is providing is that there's nothing in the rules that informs us that it can't work how we say it works, so it is up to someone claiming otherwise to prove such a rule exists. We can't prove non-existence.
I remembered reading this, but it got me some time to find it again. https://infinitythewiki.com/Skills_and_Equipment_in_Infinity#MODIFIERS_.28MODS.29 This should mean... BS Attack (B+1) and Fireteam bonus do not stack Enhanced Reaction and Fireteam bonus do not stack Continue the list as you please...
Now we're into a question of "does specific trump general"? Because the following box in the Fireteam Annex does seem to imply that B+1 and Fireteam B+1 do stack. (emphasis added)
I'm sorry but this only means that "these" mods(bonus or penalties that appear in Unit Profiles) don't stack with each other.
