I have a rules question about the interaction between stealth and cautious movement. Specifically, the first bullet point of caution movement and the first two bullet points of stealth. Stealth clearly states that the user can declare cautious movement inside enemy ZOC, but the second bullet point seems to stipulate that they must stay out of LOF, which is the whole point of trying to use cautious move in the first place. Like, would it only work if the enemy inside ZOC was facing away from you and there was another enemy outside of ZOC that you are trying to avoid with cautious move?
Cautious move allows you to got through LoF and ZoC of enemy models/markers as long as you start and finish outside of both LoF and ZoC. Stealth allows you to both start and fishing Cautious move inside ZoC, the part about LoF is about starting and end positions, just to double down that you cant do those when something sees you.
That's what made sense to me, but my local meta plays it like the example in my original post. Which means there are a lot of people maybe playing it wrong. How do you bump something for a rules clarification? Is there a place to submit FAQ questions?
I don't think I understand your original post. Can you give an example to explain how your meta is currently playing it? You can't, and there isn't. Rules clarification processes have been awful since @ijw left a year ago. Peer opinions on this forum is all you get :-( But in this particular case, the answer is pretty clear so once we understand your question better, we'll probably be able to point out a pretty definitive interpretation.
I'll try to clarify. Players essentially interpret the phrase "stays outside their LOF" (stealth bullet point 2) as applying to the entire movement path, and not just the start and end points of the movement called out in Cautious Move. So if you tried to Cautious Move (starting out of LOF) into a ZOC model's back arc (ending out of LOF) using stealth, the cautious move doesn't work, since you didn't stay out of LOF (the movement path crosses LOF).
Thanks, now I understand. Actually I can see your meta's point. I don't think we've received an official answer on stealth/cautious movement related questions. See this thread https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/cautious-movement-stealth-and-sixth-sense.39997/#post-409694 for the only prior discussion I'm aware of, which posits that Stealth is intended to read "if the user declares a Short Movement Skill or Cautious Movement within the Zone of Control of one or more enemies and stays outside their LoF, the ARO-preventing effect of Cautious Movement works." That's the only thread I'm aware of that considers these issues, and it doesn't answer the question of what "stays outside their LoF" means. So I can see the argument that if the Stealthy trooper declares Cautious movement outside a reactive trooper's LoF, then passes through their LoF to end at another point outside their LoF but inside their ZoC, the ARO-preventing effect of Cautious Movement wouldn't happen. Stealth allows you to declare Cautious Movement while inside ZoC, even if you then pass through LoF. But it doesn't allow you to safely end your movement inside their ZoC, unless you also stay outside their LoF. This may be one for the Unanswered Questions list, but we'll see if anyone else has any ideas first.
As far as I can tell… Regular cautious move: Start and end outside of ZoC and LoF, you’re allowed to cross LoF but can’t end in ZoC. Stealth: You can start in ZoC but while using Stealth you’re not allowed to cross LoF. So if you cross LoF, you fall back to the regular cautious movement rules, where if you start or end in ZoC, you’ll generate AROs.
I read the stealth clause in bullet 2 as applying to both short move (where staying out of lof is required) and cautious move (where only starting/ending out of lof is required). so if that is right stealth let's you activate cautious move in ZoC (which you could not otherwise do) and then cautious move rules take over for resolving it (that is, you draw no AROs if you end out of LoF). otherwise the only use for stealth cautious moving within ZoC would be when always outside of lof, in which case you could just short move and spend the other half of your order doing something fun.
You'd still be able to cross the LoF of other troopers, just not the LoF of troopers whose ZoC you stopped in at the end of the Cautious Move.
So you are proposing that we'd check ZoC throughout the path of movement to ensure that while in lof you remain outside of ZoC? If so, doesn't that seem overly complicated? If not, are you saying with stealth you could cautious move across lof out of ZoC but not into ZoC? I'm not sure how that'd work, and the asymmetry would seem odd to me. Not saying that's not how it might work, just odd. edit: I think I understand now - you're basically saying that you could cautious move in lof for targets other than those in ZoC. If so, then cautious move and short move would be identical for purposes of moving across the ZoC guys lof, so you would take the aro from him but not others. hmmm. perhaps?
Hmm. The more I try to parse it out, the more confused I get. Maybe I'm wrong in post #8. Let me think it through again. Ok, I just typed out and deleted several attempts. I think I have it now. First of all, I think @Vanderbane is correct and I was wrong in post #8. Under the proposed interpretation, if the Stealthy trooper's Cautious Movement ends inside a trooper's ZoC, then it grants AROs to any trooper who had LoF to any point of the movement. But, I also have a proposal for why that interpretation is wrong. Clause 2 of Stealth states "If the user declares a Short Movement Skill or Cautious Movement within the Zone of Control of one or more enemies and stays outside their LoF, he does not grant AROs to those enemies." So again, it refers only to "declaring" the skill. So, that would mean that if A starts and ends a Move inside B's ZoC, using Stealth he doesn't give B an ARO. But, if he starts outside B's ZoC and Moves into it, then he does give B and ARO. Because Stealth only works if you declare the move inside ZoC. That can't possibly be correct. It would mean that Stealth is only effective when you're closer to the enemy, and not effective when you start further away. The more plausible interpretation is that "declares" means the declaration of the whole movement path. So if A declares a movement path that is within B's ZoC, he doesn't give B and ARO. The path doesn't have to start within ZoC. It follows that "declares" is being used the same way in clause 1 of Stealth. So the clause means "the user can declare a Cautious Movement path inside the ZoC of enemy models and markers." It's convoluted, but it gets us there.
@QueensGambit has the right version I think; that's how we've played it. But I could see one other optional reading. in that case, stealth changes the way cautious move works. if you activate cautious move within ZoC of an enemy, it works as normal for enemies outside of that ZoC (you can cross their LoF and as long as you end in cover, you're good). But you could not cross LoF of the trooper within ZoC or your cautious move fails. This seems far less intuitive to me than the way the rules are written, and I think would create some odd interactions that aren't worth the gain (the main gain being that you can, under the rule described by @QueensGambit slip behind a nearby trooper using cautious move). So I favor the previous reading, but I see how you could arrive at this one.
As a small point here are the differences between English and Spanish as far as my limited ability to quality check Google goes (English is base, strikethrough is what's missing in Spanish and underline is what is added): If the user declares a Short Movement Skill or Cautious Movement within the Zone of Control of one or more models or markers of enemies and stays outside their LoF, he does not grant AROs to those enemies.
