I'd add to that list the changes to the Crit mechanics. Although throwing more dice means statistically more crits, previously an ARO trooper receiving a flull linked HMG burst was as good as dead. But then, sometimes, you got that lucky crit that completely stopped the Active player during its killing spree. Right now TAGs and powerful linked IP's can (thanks to hight ARM and the new crit mechanic) go around tanking crits even in those rare ocasions they loose the FtF roll because the Reactive player got lucky.
I mean, it's not what you set out to do, but it's the flow that the current state of the game naturally encourages, and Infinity is a very easy game to lose. You can only hold back so much against someone until you look like you're taking the piss.
Before people get too excited, I think there is a nonzero chance that the reason 400 points feels more fresh and diverse is because the relentless process of streamlining and building for efficiency has not really gotten underway in the way is has with thousands of players over many years @ 300 points. I think if we are relying on a small, random chance to auto-fail and die as a primary balance mechanism, then the game is lacking in balance. I'm legitimately excited to see a Yu Jing strategy that I like. I feel that Long-Ya would be solid in this role too due to low cost, RemPres and of course, marker state giving them either an order tax or a straight invincibility to sweepers. I think this is the absolute core of the idea. Due to the nature of the orders system, players "attack strength per order" hits the theoretical maximum at a relatively low points value (which can be as low as alpha + LT + 8 cheerleaders). Whereas defense and utility greatly benefit as the points value of the game goes up and up as it relies on spreading points through your pool of models. We are sitting at a point value where I can attack at full strength and have decent utility in support, while your ability to defend is not similarly maximized. Even at 200 points you can run most of the strong alpha options at full strength, just without support.
I didn't say that changing the Crit mechanic was the sole responsible, I'm just saying that it is one of several factors (you mentioned others) that contribute to the current prevalence and effectiveness of Alpha-striking tactics. On the other hand, I do think that the small chance to auto-fail and die/get wounded was indeed a useful mechanic because that meant any FtF roll was risky, even for a mighty TAG.
Look my advice if you want to look at other formats, custom missions or anything that isn't "ITS Standard" is just talk to each other and play the games, don't worry about what the local TOs or whatever think. Remember the guy who got us started on 400 here just asked to organise some games for fun. We weren't looking to seriously consider this for tournaments, we just sat down for some casual games. It was a total surprise that 400 points was actually making the game feel better after playing it for a bit over a month we came to that gradual realisation, at which point we went back and started trying to figure out the reasons why that was. Actually good news for you I've had this exact conversation about Haqq and specifically Bahram and we've worked over it, turns out they're fine. The main thing was you have to shift away from primarily relying on the ultra cheap stuff like the Daylami and Ghazi spam, but you don't need to commit your link team to primary ARO duties either. First and foremost, obviously there's the Nadhir with their hidden deployment shenanigans. Flammespear out of nowhere or a point blank LSG template as a hidden living mine are both annoying to push into and will slow an opponent down. Secondly there's the remote stable RAFIQ REMOTE Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 14) SHIHAB REMOTE Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 24) FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) KAMEEL (Total Reaction, Repeater) Rifle, Light Shotgun ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 18) All of these are perfectly viable as ARO options at 400 especially the Total Reaction Kameel. Remember I mentioned the TR Baggage bots for Yu Jing are actually pretty good at 400 and I often play them? Well the Kameel is a better version of them because you get the option of burst 2 DTWs attached to them as well. The Rafiq is a super flexible 2nd Combat group piece of tech too, it's really easy to slot in at 400 points and it can pull so many duties. Has a Flashpulse for medium range, can corner guard with the Shotgun DTW if you want, brings a repeater for ZOC defense, and on offense it can offer camo spam counters or just be a fast specialist to use a second group's orders. The Shotgun DTW attached to Haq REMs offers them alot of utility most other factions don't get in defense. Additionally Bahram now gets access to Fiddler and 400pts makes it way easier to pay for the version that brings 2 Jackbots, which gives you two bonus flamethrower DTWs that don't chew up combat group slots for extra DZ defense. Fiddler also improves the value you get out of playing with REMs as ARO options by giving Bahram a real combat engineer at last, see the link I posted about recursion mechanics in the previous post. MRRF is one of the three factions I pointed out need a total rework, they're pointless at 300pts too. Chasseurs got a massive nerf with N4 and they were one of the backbones of that sectorial in N3, and the other stand out unit Mirage team are available for Kosmo (who support Mirage team better than MRRF) which is basically French but better. Unfortunate but like I said it's not a silver bullet to fix everything. ISS sucks at both points levels too but you know I just have to accept that if I want to play them regardless of the points level I'm going to be pushing shit uphill and that's life until CB gets around to fixing them. While absolutely true 400pts has one massive advantage in this regard because the Mission matters more. Playing the mission, and thus building your list for the mission has a much greater impact compared to 300pts which is very murder focused. Thus when you're trying to best tailor 2 lists to suit a mission pack that features a rotation of ITS missions you're going to wind up with more variation in your lists. Comparatively when buildings lists to murder and alpha strike it's way easier to distill a perfected list that works largely in a vacuum. They absolutely do. I don't repair them as much in White Banner (The Ye Mao is opportunistic about it but his Haris link can often drag him out of position to support the REMs which WB tends to have fewer of overall) but they definitely get a serious workout with Kokram in Vanilla.
You didn't say that, and I didn't say you did. "A" primary balance mechanic is not the same as "the" primary balance mechanic.
Thanks to @Triumph post I think players should try out 400 point games more often. I've always wanted to play at that level someday.
Whats stopping you (global circumstances nonwithstanding)? next game night just ask some people to try it with you.
Yeah, I'm still surprised that people are only now discovering that you don't have to play 300 pts Infinity... In my community we play tournaments from 150 to 400 pts, even 450 one time, and with different types of scenarios - ITS, our own, YAMS, 20x20, TACOS. Infinity can be a bit different game if you change the points, the scenarios et cetera. I like it in all of the flavors, but to be honest I prefer Infinity in lower points, like 200, when you really can take a 10 soldiers and have a nice, quick game. And our 150pts Boarding Action tournaments are one of the most popular ones in the community. PozdRawiam / Greetings
Likely people use the standard format because they assume the game is intended to played with it and most fun/balanced as a result. With Infinity, 400 points may indeed be a better format and I will definitely give it a few more tries in the coming weeks.
:) Hassasin is of course in a really good spot right now, I can deny that, even playing to 400 points (right now you can play almost whatever you want with hassasin, I almost can't find bad list with those guys and I'm really happy with that) they are still good. Maybe I didn't explain myself well enough. The thing to me is while you can put other things to do ARO work they will be, probably, not better than the ones you place in a regular 300 points matcht, only expensier... but when the active turn comes they will be abslolutely better, so you can play 400 with hassasin barahm well. 3 fiday are always better than 2. For example. About what you said about the Kamel I have tasted it in 300 match with RTF and it was a really good experience, so to 400 it hasn't to be different. Merovinge... I'm dissagree a little, right now to play 300, even 350, games or less, you can have really good lists. They will be extreme list, but you will have a lot of fun. I have played several tournaments with them this N4 and they did really well (even I fought a couple times for the tourmament victory), of course they have severes gaps options to face some ITS missions, I can deny that, but for others Merovinge is one of the hardest armies you can face it (any missions with high "control zone" score). Even when you can play and have fun with Merovingia or I believe they are ok right now, I'm with you in the afirmation "they need to be, if not fixed, yes upgrade", because they aren't OK, only ok.
I think their biggest issue is they're built around a dated concept that no longer fits the metagame, and they've been more or less superceded by Kosmoflot who can produce a pretty strong approximation of their tricks plus get access to a much larger, flexible unit roster with some of current edition's most desired rules/profiles like NCO and Polaris bears. Similar to White Banner at 300 points, it's worthless you can basically play the same list but better by cherry picking from Vanilla YJ.
Mrrf work to a certain extent but there is no list variety really and the key pieces will be the same in all lists. Having such a limited roster doesn't help them much, they have to make do with what they've got which isn't a particularly broad spectrum of kit
This has been an interesting discussion, I appreciate folks sharing their perspectives. I'm hopeful I can get back into the game this year, and I'll bear it in mind based on how I see first turn alpha strike stuff play out locally.
Do you find that any new problem archetypes arise at 400 points? I'm still in my infancy in terms of Infinity experience, but in other games I've played you can often see things like armour/horde skew* lists, buff stacking*, and recursion mechanics hit a kind of 'critical point' at higher points levels: essentially they become a new gear check. *I appreciate that the order limit prevents dudespam and that Infinity doesn't really have that sort of buffing mechanic, but the overall point stands I think
not really, the only real problems still exist at 300, and while they are largely unchanged you just get more tools to deal with them. armour and horde skew dont really exist and have a bunch of counter play built into the game (most high armour is vulnerable to hacking, EM etc.), and buff stacking doesnt really exist beyond the targeted state. It's not like early MKIII WMH or AoS where you had functionally immortal units and/or ones whose leathality can get buffed so high it's unstoppable.
They are some armies which have issues to get to 400 points, but nothing more. When you change the points limit usually some units become better. The range impact in some units hard. For example, in winterforce, boyg is a profile you don't see often in 300 points matches, but playing 200 or 400 it becomes really usefull. If some armies can't play 400 range as well as others, it turns of when the range is low, 200 points, some armies become really really dangerous (Caledonian, for example, or Kosmo). About the frenchs, his main problems is something @Triumph did mention, old design, so new stuff has that kind of new rules which are better than "old ones". In thar particular I think, both are in the same page.
Gear checks certainly exist in Infinity but it's pretty limited and more about covering your bases than answering a Warmachine style skew list. You generally require a wide selection rather than a specialised selection of options to deal with problems. Going up in points makes it easier to cover your bases effectively without having to cut on something important and leave yourself to get screwed over by something you didn't answer.
