Frostbit me...Ouch!

Why is stealth negating your hacking if your hacker is in your core - getting sixth sense which stealth doesn't work against.

 

@Morray, Did you take / get the 1st Turn in both games? Firefight really favours the 1st turn anyways thus armies with good 1st turn capabilities have even more advantages there

I played the following list (which is based on an old N3 firefight list) quite succesfully against Shasvastii. I had the 1st turn and was able to win the game, I guess, 9:0. Although I have to admit I was quite lucky with my Moderator Hacker ARO spotlighting the Minelayer Speculo that surprise attacked her.

Spoiler: Frost Grrls

Frost Grrls + Daddy
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 9 2 2
AVICENNA Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
MODERATOR (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 9)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 9)
MODERATOR (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0.5 | 14)
MORLOCK Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
RIOT GRRL Spitfire / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 33)
RIOT GRRL Boarding Shotgun ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 29)
TASKMASTER Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun, Crazykoala / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 42)
WOLFGANG AMADEUS MULTI Rifle(+1B), Chain-colt / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 35) Snow-Ops
ZERO (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Shock Mines ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 24)
BOUNTY HUNTER Red Fury / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 15)

GROUP 2 4 1 1
CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit [+1B]) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 18)
MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CC Weapon. (0 | 6)
SALYUT (Hacker, EVO Hacking Device) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 15)
TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
VERTIGO ZOND Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 17)
ZONDBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)

6 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army
The EVO Salyut's only purposes were: hacking Enhanced Reaction on the Vertigo and Koala reloading

Thus I'd translate my list roughly into this list below. Although I have no real clue whether or not normal Brigadas would be better than the EVAders and the Vostok.

Spoiler: Convict List

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GROUP 1 9 1 1
ALGUACIL (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 10)
ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
DAKTARI Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
EVADER Feuerbach, D-Charges ( | TinBot: Firewall [-3]) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 31)
EVADER (Engineer) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, AP Mines ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 26)
JAZZ FTO undefined / undefined. (0.5 | 19)
JAZZ FTO (Hacker, Number 2) Submachine Gun, Pitcher, Cybermines / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 19)
VOSTOK FTO (Mimetism [-6]) Mk12(+1 Dam) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 44)
WOLFGANG AMADEUS MULTI Rifle(+1B), Chain-colt / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 35)
McMURROUGH Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / AP + DA CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
MORAN (Surprise Attack [-3], Camouflage [1 Use]) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse, D-Charges, Crazykoala / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 18)

GROUP 2 5 1 1
BOUNTY HUNTER Red Fury / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 15)
JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
MORAN (Repeater) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse, D-Charges, Crazykoala ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 17)
SALYUT (Hacker, EVO Hacking Device) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 15)
TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
VERTIGO ZOND Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 17)

6 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

 

What Hachiman said.

Additionally, Ajax is a joke this edition, he cant kill anything unless he makes CC, and you should have the tools to deal with him WAY before then.
I wouldn't bother with anything that isn't carlota or a source of dcharges that can be jammed in a fire team attached to a good line breaker piece. On Bandits, because the mission has an exclusion zone they aren't particularly worth the inclusion, and rolling to land on their side of the table is too unreliable for it to be your primary avenue for attack, and with the ADS in effect you should really only use D-Charges as they just ignore it.

Furthermore, baseline this mission is realistically just kill more of your opponents stuff with everything else being secondary. Most things you see in lists these days are immune to the cold, and the heaters and consoles aren't really worth that much when compared to just murdering everything and camping the center so just ignore them.Or at the very least don't go out of your way to complete them.

You have access to these magical things called morans which can pretty much invalidate fidays if you are going second as they can counter deploy them and pin them in place in cover with themselves and the koala (or just the koala in some circumstances), and if you are going first you can just hunt them.

CJC isn't particularly scared of impersonators.

Unless there is more than 2, then maybe be scared a little.

 

In regards to SP, they have virtually no hacking protection (especially if Scylla doesnt get the chance to get fairy dust up), they have a VERY small footprint on the table and often have their key pieces clustered close together, meaning you can just yeet a repeater from a linked pitcher down range light up everything important and drop a handful of missiles on it and just cripple them from the get go.

Continuing the trend of things SP hates, templates, spam templates which given that asinine shotgun change is stupidly easy, you can and will ruin their day and blunt an advance with some well placed shotguns, flame throwers and chain colts/rifles. As the bulk of their army are just 1W, ARM 2 mooks that rely on their vis mods to survive just ignoring them and tagging multiple members will allow you to quickly inflict casualties all while your hackers are bricking and spot lighting their HI point men.

 

Getting into specifics is pretty hard but in general my theory is that to avoid your opponent stomping you like that you need to set out problems for them to solve that will slow them down and focus on solving instead of how to destroy you the most efficient way.

Going first the most basic idea is to push hard and kill some things (something like 3 minimum) without losing the attacking piece. Then leaving the attacking piece in (an annoying) place so they focus on that instead of coming at you. McDoggo is pretty good for this.

Another way might be to take out their key attacking active piece, Lt etc possibly with something like a bandit or Guided or AD.

Going second its more like some sort of trap or at least a defensive layout they need to unpick rather than just straight up killing an ARO piece then proceeding to raid the hen house of your squish dep zone troops. In N3 CJC I often used a sacrificial Jaguar to throw smoke on an Intruder sniper who could then proceed to pick things off at will or at least inhibit their freedom of movement. Moran trapping a Fiday from reserve is another good example. Or just annoying placement of Moran's in general. In general I think you should have your reserve when going second change the problem your opponent has to solve as much as possible to disrupt their intended plan as much as possible. If you can cost them 3 or more orders on top of stripping you can limit the damage they can do to you with something like Ajax crossing the board. If that stalls out before it does a lot of damage it can leave them very vulnerable to a counterstrike.

For Fidays the main thing is to make sure the Fiday dies in making its attack, and struggles to kill multiple things at once. The main way to do that is spread out but have your pieces be able to see each other. Losing the Fiday isn't nothing to your opponent compared to the single things it can realistically kill in 1 order.

 

When you guys speak of using Morans as speedbumps for Fidays, what are you referring to? I thought Koalas can't target Fidays. Is it the idea to have the Moran attempt to force the Fiday into revealing themselves?

 

you can pin them in place using a moran and it's koala and the piece of terrain it's likely standing next to (or just one of the two if it's in the corner).

As it is a Friendly model you can place deployables with it within trigger area, additionally you place them just out side of base to base and in such a way that the impersonator cant move anywhere without entering base to base with them with out forcing it to reveal itself as it entered B2B with another model, at which point you get to shoot it and the koala/mine goes off on it. meaning you have it pinned in a playpen somewhere where it will have no impact on the table, leaving you to deal with it whenever you want.

 

That's one good use for the camouflaged Moran though (apart from the general benefit of a super cheap camouflaged infiltrating specialist).

 

Yup but he is revealed, and there will likely be something else nearby with LOF preventing him from going back into marker state, or if not you have just taxed them 2 orders (one to make a risky dodge, and another to re-impersonate) before they can engage with it, on top on any other messing you have done with their order pool.

 

He can't walk over the Koala

"A Trooper's Movement ends automatically whenever he enters Silhouette contact with an enemy, even if the specified movement route is cut short as a result."

https://infinitythewiki.com/General_Movement_Rules

Also, touching an enemy model is a cancellation clause for Impersonation

"The Impersonation Marker enters Silhouette contact with an enemy Model."

https://infinitythewiki.com/Impersonation_State

So he would stop, reveal and set off the koala if he tried to walk over it.

He could jump over it, but that would also reveal the Impersonator and set off the Koala, which would auto hit (unless the Impersonator has Super jump)

 

It's answered in the rulebook. Any game element your opponent controls is an enemy.

"A Trooper's Movement ends automatically whenever he enters Silhouette contact with an enemy, even if the specified movement route is cut short as a result." General Movement rules.

"Game elements that belong to the opposing player's Army List or to any of their teammates if the game is played in pairs or groups." Alignment rules clarifying what counts as an enemy

"Game element that represents a piece of Deployable Equipment or a Deployable Weapon." Glossary clarifying that Tokens such as Koalas are game elements.

However one caveat, the following is incorrect:

Koalas are technically not Enemy Models, they are Enemy Tokens just like other deployable weapons like Mines. The Impersonator could not move through a Koala but entering silhouette contact would not cancel the impersonation state.

 

The Moran is 46% odds to just fucking shoot him in the face with a shotgun without even considering the odds for the Koala to kill the Fiday, he'd be better off just doing that.