If this is how you view playing against a hacking intensive opponent is, then I can see why we're talking past each other. Besides that, sure. Looks like you recapped a similar game to that Triumph spoke of earlier.
Ok, let's here it then. Instead of just insulting everyone and bitching, let's hear your ideas on how to get around it.
Huh? Last I checked this unit was equipped with a boarding shotgun? ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 1 SPECULO KILLER Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (1 | 32) 1 SWC | 32 Points Open in Infinity Army In N4, thats a template weapon you know... Well maybe you do, I could suggest this...
Clearly you do as all your posts are whining about how overpower hacking is and that there are no tools to deal with linked hackers, even when presented with lots of suggestions and options by other players.
@Hecaton Dude, I don't care. I wasn't talking to you, because talking to you seems more or less pointless, because you don't seem to listen to anyone (as several here have noted). I've heard you're an ok guy in person, I'd rather just not engage with you if I can manage it in text online tho. @Mahtamori well done picking out that it wasn't hacking heavy Bakunin he chose to bring. You could go the next step now and ask yourself why. Why would a really strong player choose not to go that route if it is so unequivocally strong? Maybe he doesnt think its the strongest? And then think about what would have happened if he brought more specialists in a game he only avoided losing because I couldnt kill 1 more specialist because only 1 was on the board. If you actually take in the example I gave though, you'll see that although it was Bakunin I was playing against, it wasn't an example of how to beat a repeater heavy opponent (BJCs repeater capacity is just mentioned as an aside). If it was you guys would just pick a trivial reason to dismiss it anyway, we all know that. Its so easy to do online. Instead Its an example of how I have found great players think in the face of something that might seem to strong to them instead of insistently insisting the world is wrong and they are right, even though what they are doing isn't working.. And it was aimed at people who might choose to talk productively on the subject rather than just trying to pick holes. As an aside Bakunin are pretty nuts at throwing out repeaters too between the linked Tsyklon that can throw them reliably into an opponent deployment zone, and Zeros with Dep Reps (and e-mines!) And attack REMs. Ive done it a bit (BJC and CJC are what I've played most). But in this case if he did that Im fairly certain based on the board and other things that those things would be dead before they were effective IMHO. If he null defends my WB kill his zeros and the Tsyklon (or Vostok) is a big fat based target that has trouble hiding completely and can be placed limited places because of its size, and clusters a bunch of other targets (often including his lt) nearby, giving them more limited places to hide too. For reference I don't think he had any hackers other than the Prowler KHD. His list was something like: (Core) Riot ML Moderator combi x3 Avicenna (Haris) Wolfgang Riot spit Riot BS Tinbot Zero mine layer x2 Uberfall Morlock assault pistol Flashbotx2 Prowler KHD
As much as I tend to disagree with Hecaton, you seem to have missed a vital point about why we writes in this topic. I think that, like me, Hecaton finds that the game's hacking system is off and rewards behaviour that's frustrating to deal with and orthogonal to the rest of the game design. Of course, we've got vastly different opinions on where the problem is. He's more focused on beating hackers at their own game, while I think some factions hackers to be a bit too good at hacking while being a bit too safe from bullets. Eh... you're gonna have to forgive me for trying to find your point about hacking in your anecdote when the topic is about hacking. I guess the point that "you can choose to play without hacking" is valid enough, though that's not really a choice you typically get to make about your opponent's list. In N4, at least. As an aside, it's quite annoying that this rather open ended topic was posted in 4 subfaction forums rather than in the Accss Guide. A further aside is that I don't fully agree with you on Bakunin's ability to use repeater nets. No no. Not like that. I don't think Bakunin can get quite as much benefit out of it (it's very difficult to formulate why, but similar to Hassassin I don't think the sectorial rewards going ham the way some other factions do), which is why I very rarely mention it in topics like this.
Sorry if that was escalating, it was my way of disengaging from you, because our conversation is frustrating, and isn't productive IMHO.
Well, when people suggest solutions that don't actually work... it's getting harder and harder to take you seriously.
Aight, I ran out of patience. For real, that angry-obstinate-guy really doesn't worth our time and effort. I think it's time to tap the 'Ignore' button out of him, and go on with the normal conversation. Shall we?
Sounds good, as i really want to lean into hacking now that im returning after two years of not playing, so would prefer to pick up tricks with them instead of all this. I have been interested in taking the killer wildcat as a sort of template defence mechanisim, for example you cybermask you impersonator before you face to face a riot link and its effectiveness against yours is dimished to one guy, Another might be to imperosnate your killer move them into panic room if the enemy delays great you walk your link in and start slicing the pie, if not you may get some free shots or and flamethrower, works for defending a room aswell, Of course this will break the link team but it may be easier than trying to tank a room full of chain rifles, Another trick is the moran placement drop a crazy koala beside something that can be hacked then next order use the killer or normal hacker to hack it and it has the choice of reset against good hackers and taking a koala to the face or vice versa, you could possibly co-ordinate something like this out of one order aswell but i need to brush up rules on this as its been a while. It also asks the question of if your taking two morans it might be worth trying to over infiltrate with one, and risk it as if they fail they make good DZ defense against what i think is the more common use of AD this meta might bring or rambo units in general, most koalas probably wont kill whatever it is but it will male players choose between two things. This might be common knowledge but sharing it is always fun,
Uh... if you're suggesting that you're impersonating that wildcat via cybermask while in a fireteam that's a no no. You can't be an impersonator and be in a fireteam.
@Pander22 I will say that cybermasking a khd, especially one with other capabilities is a great and sometimes over looked tool they give you. It often doesn't improve your odds in a FTF like it used to in N3 but it is extremely useful for sneaking places it would otherwise be hard to get to, particularly since it is automatically successful now. Not sure those use cases are exactly how I would do it but they are food for thought.Bandit KHD might be the better option, although it has camo which is sometimes as good or better. Rolling to over infiltrate a Moran is high risk high reward. If you can get him in ZOC but not LOF of a full HI link team with it, you could make an opponents first turn a challenge. OTOH if the have WB near, they might just trivially clean you up with them. And if you fail the roll (which is likely with low PH) you lose a fair bit, both good midfield position and maybe a koala. You lose any koala you put out if you fail to over infiltrate in N4 still I think. I've def seen it work at the right moment tho.
Sorry you may have missed the bit where i said it would break the link, I didnt mention it until a fair bit into my ramblings haha
Yeah bandit might be far more straight forward as it may be in a position already but always worth remembrring Yeah bandit would for sure be easier to use but handy for exclusion zones and room clearing when you can take a squad up with you right up until you impersonate with someone, its why i really like my bolts in forco, that and you know, all the shooting haha, Problem i used to find on my tables was space, now ive normally got sombra, bandit and two morans in there fighting for space, should have a new local soon though so i can see how dense their tables are set up, and seecif its still an issue.
TTS is good if you don't have local games. And you get to play players from all over. Tends towards dense tables for sure tho. Also if your skirmishers are so many they are fighting for space I can see why over infiltrating a Moran would become more appealing. Bandit has a higher PH for that too, so that's worth considering also. Bandit with a shotgun can hurt some things from right outside a dep zone.
I guess I'm misunderstanding how going into cybermask, breaking the link, activating the cybermask, getting opponent to delay, then reforming a smaller link and moving it in is beneficial rather than just attacking with the link at the start? What's the plan here?
