Combined Army has different weapons per species / theme - there's a set for Ur stuff (Nexus, Unidrons, Umbras, support REMs, etc), Morats, and Shasvastii, and then the Sygmaa units use the Tohaa weapons (but have a distinct MULTI Sniper, since Tohaa don't get that weapon).
You are certainly right here. But I stand by it - how often are you going to see a Kunai with Sniper Rifle and Kunai with a Marksman Rifle together on your list? How often Djan Sniper and Djan Marksman happen to be in the very same fireteam on the table? I mean, sure, we could ask for a separate token for every single weapon in Infinity. But let's keep it small, shall we? :)
@QueensGambit and @Errhile that seems very limiting making predictions on what people will buy, bring, and have access to like that. What weapons do we actually need tokens for, then, if missing a sculpt and being likely to be on the table at the same time is the criteria? Take for example Hundun. In my experience, having a sniper on the table is fairly unlikely, but that's the only current sculpt. Having a spare Marksman Rifle armed Hundun on the table isn't unlikely, however. Is the Marksman option the only necessary one here? Is it more or less elegant and clear than having say... a clear plastic coloured nugget denoting the HRL and another colour denoting the Marksmanrifle? Also, if the specific type of weapon isn't necessary, why do we bother with silhouettes of guns? Why not do a more Quake III stylized icons at that point? Three small bullets for SMG, two shells for Shotgun, a cross hair for marksman option, a missile for missile/rocket launcher, and maybe a LAW for disposable tubes? Are rifles necessary going by your criteria - I mean it's quite useful for Mr Wild, but he's only AVA 1 and there's no Contender token? I know that ISS has a need for two different grenade launchers, but are grenade launcher even necessary to denote outside of ISS? They have sculpts, no? What unit doesn't have a HMG sculpted? What about the more expensive units like Mowang, is it reasonable to expect and predict people to buy several?
These are good ideas. Personally, I think I would find them more useful than the gun silhouettes. Well, that was my suggestion, that people post their personal answers to that exact question to give us a sense of what's needed in practice. A good example in HB is the Barid. There's only one sculpt, and I often run two of them in a fireteam, one HD and one KHD. So I definitely need a way to distinguish which is which. And a good example in the other direction is the MMR and Sniper Rifle. Is anyone running fireteams containing two of the same unit, one with each loadout, that can't be distinguished by sculpts? I'd be surprised if they are, but I could be wrong - it's an empirical question. Unless anyone needs to distinguish between the two, I'd probably suggest a token with just a scope on it (no gun) as the icon representing both. By the same token, one icon is probably sufficient for the ML and HRL. I like the idea of just using a rocket, but needs thought as to whether it would get confused with Unloaded tokens. For a Panzerfaust, maybe two rockets of more simplistic design, but with the same proviso about Unloaded. I'm not even sure whether an SMG or shotgun tokens are needed, for that matter. But there's no downside to creating them since they're among the easiest to represent. I like the idea of two shells to represent the shotgun. For the SMG, I would probably suggest an Uzi silhouette - I think it's probably universally recognizable. For the grenade launcher, I like the existing A - I think it's recognizable to anyone although I could be wrong. But even better, why not just use a grenade silhouette? Re whether a Rifle icon is needed, I would probably vote no. The guys with no markers are the ones with Rifles. HMG/Spitfire is the hardest one. How about an ammo belt? If it's even needed - the loadouts that get used tend to have sculpts, I think. Again, an empirical question.
Yeah, Wild Bill by definition would never need a marker since he's AVA 1. You always know what loadout he has just be looking at your list. Grenade Launcher would be useful for Haqq as the Ghulam doesn't have a sculpt and is very widely played. (Personally I don't need that one because I proxy a Hunzakut). Agree about HMGs - not sure they are missing sculpts. I doubt that Mowangs need markers. Are people running two of them? And if they are, either they are in fact buying several, or they're proxying one of them - either way, the two loadouts would be easy to distinguish by model without the need for markers. Really I think the utility of the markers is mostly for fireteams, primarily line infantry fireteams. Although I bet we could find a use for them in IA's HI fireteams, for example.
Arguably, I'd say these tokens are needed whenever a model doesn't show the primary weapon that matches the list and then leave it to the player's own discretion as to whether this is necessary or not. I've seen several examples of (and committed these mistakes myself several times) where an AVA 1 unit gets played with the wrong weapon option - most recently accident I played Krit with Multi Rifle instead of Heavy Shotgun (this reduced his combat efficiency funnily enough). I've actually had less problems with Fireteams. Got a bunch of combi Kappas. No problem. The red head is a paramedic, blue head is a hacker, brown head is secretly Cho, and the Keisotsu is HMG. I find it so much easier to manage these things when you need constant reminder about who is who, not to mention that having a literal pile of Markers that you need to move everywhere with the units creates a lot of overhead. (As a footnote; I'm fairly sure I've got ADHD, keeping track of things can be a nightmare for me, and ironically I've found that using Markers is more difficult than remembering states most of the time). So as much as we can argue whether it's useful for oneself or not, I think there's a potential use case for someone else. Bigger question is then rather - who's actually using this tool? What I find I'd have use for something like this is; Wild Bill - what version am I running? Krit - what's the main gun again? Hundun - what's the main gun again? Mowang - yes, I'd occasionally run more than one but I won't buy more than one and would probably use Yan Huo, Daiyokai or Gamma as proxy. Here a big challenge is remembering whether the profile has a Flammenspeer or not. Daoying - much like your Hunzakut, I'm commonly using Guilang when I skew my list beyond a single sniper. Kanren, Toawu, Bashi Bazouk, etc - these units can easily overwhelm a collection, though while a weapons Marker can alleviate this problem I think looking for other options like having someone with a 3D printer make one of those proxy flags that someone cleverly made available on Thingiverse. Dahshat - I literally solved this problem by making an army that's about 50% Corvus Belli and 50% Toughest Girls in the Galaxy mix of Jailbirds and Korgunova to get enough distinct guns for the troopers and the Corvus Belli portion isn't even using the correct model for the unit; for example Zuyong are mainly left over Wu Ming and Valerya is actually Leila Sharif's miniature, etc.
Fair enough! Not the use case I'd been picturing, but also a good use for the tokens. Speaking only for my own use, I'd already planned to make a few markers along these lines once in-person play resumes here (probably soon!). I magnetize my bases and make magnetized tokens, so my plan is that when I use a loadout marker, it will stick to the model and move around with it automatically. I'll need them primarily for Regulars in SAA, probably just to denote the Sensor/Minelayers and maybe the occasional FO, since if I just distinguish the models by hairstyle and such, I have trouble remembering which is which. I have distinct models for the other loadouts (hacker, sniper, paramedic). And for HB, HD/KHD tokens would be quite useful. Left to my own devices, I would have just put writing on the tokens since I have no graphic design skills. I'll definitely be using the FO token from this thread, and probably the hacking token for the Barids. But a Sensor/Minelayer token and a KHD token would be super useful for me.
Lemme see if I can come up with enough good visual options to create the right variety. Really the key will be just giving people some options and letting them decide how to interpret/use them.
What do we think of something like this @QueensGambit ? from left to right, top to bottom Flame: Flamethrower, Flammenspeer Cylindrical Grenade: Smoke Grenades, Smoke Radar Screen: Sensor Simple Reticule: Marksman Rifle Scope Reticule: Sniper Grenade: Grenade Rifle Bullets: HMG, Spitfire, Red Fury, etc. Mine: Minelayer Pistol Bullets: Submachine Gun Missile: Missile Launcher Shotgun Shell: Shotgun Cross: Paramedic, Doctor Hackable: Hacker Wrench and Hammer: Engineer Skull and Crossbones: Killer Hacker Explosion: Grenade Launcher Or obviously these can represent whatever jogs your memory since they will remain un-labeled. Only concern I'd have is there's only so many ways to parse a bunch of bullets for something like an HMG - not sure if it's necessary to need to differentiate the various high rate of fire weapons more.
These look great! I'll definitely be using some of them. To my eye, the Marksman Rifle is the least intuitive of them - it doesn't clearly read as a reticule to me. The HMG and SMG read as bullets, but not necessarily as SMGs and HMGs - but I don't have any better ideas, other than an ammo belt for the HMG. And none of those are the ones I'll be using, so don't take my opinion for more than it's worth :-) For the shotgun, I'd probably remove the shot (I assume that's what the little dots are) and add a second cartridge. For the KHD, is there a way to make it say "hacker" as well as "killer"? Even if it's just superimposing the skull on the hacking symbol (the skull is enough I think, the crossbones could be removed to make it cleaner).
The smoke grenade could be smaller and then have a "puf" getting out of the top. Just like shotgun shell has pellets. The mine looks like a watch. Maybe just something in the ground? Or even with a boot on top. Grenade launcher is the hardest. "Explosion" applies to many things and too similar for "fire". Mortar tube with bipod would be better, even if noone has a mortar. All others, good IMO.
Yeah unfortunately the Rolex mine is the actual official shape of the thing on the N4 tokens. I figured I'd match it for that reason but I could replace it with something better for sure. I just thought someone would be mad at me if I didn't use the the 'correct' mine icon. Yeah bullets become pretty hard to 'read' at some point. I'd tried sort of bandolier or something like that but it doesn't read aesthetically. Ditto with an ammo box. It's unfortunate that there are so may different high rate of fire weapons and so few ways to really depict them (short of the gun silhouettes I was using before). For the above I'm mostly trying to create icons for helping remember proxy load-outs But if you're asking about the token creator itself, the stuff I created for N4 specifically (which Toadchild has graciously added to his creator) are mostly similar to the official tokens, though I've changed them in a lot of ways (I'd say improved them) including things like incorporating rules reminder text. Some of the official tokens are pretty bad IMHO - and it was that frustration that originally kicked off my re-design. I believe Toadchild also has the standard (official) tokens in the creator.
Options I like the simplicity of of the strike-through the hacking logo but it covers up a lot of it. Skull w' Hacking logo as suggested by @QueensGambit - my only conern is how tiny the symbol might be on the tabletop. If we go with the non-watch version fo the minelayer my preference is A, the claymore, even though it may be a bit more obtuse for someone who isn't familiar with military weapons.
For the KHD, I like B. I take your point that on the tabletop, the hacking symbol might be too small to see clearly (I'd have to print it out and put it on a table to tell for sure). But the skull reads clearly, and if someone is confused by the skull it prompts them to look more closely at what's on its forehead. Not ideal, but I can't think of a better way to fit two distinct ideas ("killer" and "hacker") on a tiny token. For the minelayer, I don't actually know if a token is needed. I probably wasn't clear earlier that the sensor/minelayer Regular is a single profile with both those skills. I'll be using your Sensor token for him, as I really like that one. But FWIW, I like C best. I don't like A at all, I don't really know what a claymore looks like. B is fine because it's the official token so it's recognizable, but I don't use the official token for anything so for me it has not advantage over C which looks nicer and fits the aesthetic of your other tokens better.
I like most of these. Suggestions: Smoke Grenade - make it more cylindrical, no rounded corners, and add a cloud puff around it. Marksman rifle - add an Arch reticule around it, to give the idea of some scope, but not the full sniper? For the HMG, what about having the bullets extend to where they are covered by the grey line, to give the impression there's a lot more off screen? For the shotgun, I second QueensGambit's suggestion. I like B for the Killer hacker, A reads as isolated or not-a-hacker to me. I like A or C for the mines more than B Edit: A Chain Rifle Marker would also be useful.
So here's the update Marksman token updated slightly Minelayer token selected (though I agree there may really be no need to have this with the Loaded/Unloaded markers) Killer Hacker skull slightly re-shaped to try and give more room for the hacking icon and make it easier to see from the tabletop "SMG" bullets changed to be 9mm silhouette (rather than the versions from before that looked almost like 40mm grenades) - again this really could mean whatever you want. HMG bullets stretched across circle to imply continuous feed. Shotgun shells modified A variation on another high rate-of-fire weapon with a sort-of stripper clip or belt implied - could be used for anything An option for actual gun silhouettes with an SMG and Rifle - again, could be used for whatever; very simplified design A mortar shell (couldn't really get a mortar tube to read so I think this is the next best option) - could work for MRL, Grenade Launcher, or whatever Explosion icon has been made circular so it's less likely to get mixed up with flame Smoke grenade gets smoke added to its silhouette
Oh yeah these just keep getting better. Love the continuous HMG bullets. KHD looks even scarier than before, MMR is totally legible now, so is smoke. Nailed it.
Amazing work with these. I don't really need this kind of tokens but I will make some of them for their awesome looks.
This might be a bit on the MÖP side of things (militarily over-interested person), but a simple crosshair for Marksman and a Dragunov-style thing with range finding scale for sniper? I really like the smoke grenade icon and can see that one being very readily expandable to more types of grenades in a way that's probably realistically never going to be used. Like explosive spikes for normal ammo, electric bolts for E/M, cloud with stars in it for Eclipse, etc
