I couldn't think of a more witty title. I wanted to start this to see if anyone had ways to use him White Banner. So far they have done almost nothing for me. Once I was able to jam a Fiday, But even this was after he killed my Shang Ji HMG. The damage had already been done. The holo has never been helpful, the 360 visor hasn't helped and kind of redundant when in a core it has 6th sense. I feel like he's only there to make Zhanshi core 5-man. I tried using him in a haris of Ye Mao, holoed as a SJ, but it was frustrating that they could super jump and he had to just sit around. I have not yet tried him on his own with the holo echoes. Every time I've put him in a list, I end up taking him out for something better. The KHD seems ok with the echoes and madtraps. Any thoughts?
I have been on the receiving end of a holomasked KHD TianGou trying to surprise attack my hackers, posing as a humble Zhanshi and got me two times, but since both times the hacker was behind a tinbot in a link (and once a ShanJi HD), he failed miserably. So no happy stories to tell you.
Used him in almost every list, posed as a Shang Ji HD too often. Had only one or two chances for actual jamming something. So no, he does not much beside beeing a member that shoots a little bit better and can play a soft mindgame. The KHD can still be a good protection for Zhanshi HD, especially when a Shang Ji-sus is present. But I still want a mini! Suprise Attack only works with Holoprojector.
I personally am not a fan of the 1st division profiles anymore. I don't really know what they bring to the table other than a very limited surprise jammer. I think the KHD is somewhat a trap, unless you plan to not take any Zhanshi HD. It is way better to have multiple Zhanshi HD than a HD and KHD simply due to how hacking works in the Reactive turn. I think the holoprojector profiles have more potential, but being in the same competitive price range of Guilangs, Ye Mao, Jujaks, and the Hundun is rough.
Jammers are still excellent reactive roadblocks. Positioning is really important. Use them forwards when you're doing a refused flank. Place them to Jammer a seemingly-open AD spot. Especially helpful against those nasty units that can Van Zandt their way into your DZ. With Madtraps you can force no-good-choice situations where either Reset or Dodge are going to leave them facing the other nasty condition with no F to F. 22 points isn't a bad investment for a defensive Jammer, but Holoprojector lets you threaten a lot more territory. 7 more points for even just the Madtraps would be worth it, the Surprise Attack etc. is gravy.
Sadly, the Madtrap profiles don't have Jammer. I've used the Jammer all of once and that was after the enemy killed an important guy. If he was Forward deployed or cheap enough that I can run him up without caring, he'd be great. I've used the KHD in a team. He's not bad with WIP14, BTS3 but I'd never take him without a Tinbot. And he never did anything. I've always liked the Kanren and they are "almost" like them. I wish Kanren had Matraps on the hackers! It would instantly make them better. Anyway, the TG KHD echo profile seems ok but seems only good for certain missions. I can get a Guilang FO for a pt. less. or the Minelayer for the same.
Ah, I missed that the Madtrap ones lack Jammers. Pants. I've only played the grenades/shotgun one in a TTS match, and that guy did well but I used it offensively rather than defensively. He Jammered an Orc, took a couple orders but seemed worth it.
I wondered if I was thinking of him wrong. He seems like a defensive unit. Offensively he seems a bit order intensive. The Jammer ones seem pointless after they use up their Jammers. I was going to say he's good starting suppressive fire but the faq says he would loose the holo echoes. :(
Works about as well as any 20-something unit that doesn't have mimetism or MSV. That is to say; typically not well.
What if Tian Gou got a Long Range ARO option ala Hafza? Sounds pretty awesome with a 360 visor to me…
In vanilla I often take KHD or red fury tian and Holo it as Xi Zhuang. Without echoes if I'm going 2nd, and I try to position him so he is facing in a decent way but also leaving his back turned to good AD entry spot. The bait actually worked well few times and I got free shot at emerging AD due to 360 visor and It's super satisfying. The thing is to place mad trap away from AD entry spot :)
He'd still be a 1W squishy LI with no visual mods... Dough a holomask + missile launcher could be quite fun (i.e. to pose as a Warcor ;) ).
Hafza are good because they are very cheap. Tian Gou aren't designed to be in that points space where a single special ability is enough, and add to that the Tian Gou are in sectorials where they kind of hide as troopers with more or less the same kit as they have, so it's less about adding stuff than changing what's already there. I'd like to see; 360 visor removed as it is simply put; terrible Super-Jump and Climbing+ added so that it can hide well as and mesh well with Ye Mao, Nyoka, Jing Qo, Betatroopers, and Parvatti Combat Jump or DepZone Parachutist on 2nd Section so they can pretend to be Tigers, Crushers or Santiago MadTraps migrated to 1st section. I think somewhat shifting the unit's profile away from the "hidden jammer" whose role was "stay away from my fireteams!" threat to be that as an active piece that brings unexpected tech to the enemy is better.
He's a bit of a joke when compared to like the Heckler who has Camo (1 use but then -3 mimetisim after), Forward deploy, and Fast panda for 1pt more. [Sarcasm/on]Oh wait he has 16pt CC. That makes all the difference. [Sarcasm/off] Yes I know, I shouldn't compare to other factions. I'm going to be trying out the echo one anyway this weekend I think. This is one of my general lists i have when I don't know what I'm going to be playing. The TG is taking the place of a Ye Mao KHD. Generic2 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 8 3 2 SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) AP Heavy Machine Gun, Chain-colt ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 49) ZHANSHI (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 16) ZHANSHI (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13) ZHANSHI (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11) ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11) GŬILÁNG (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 26) TIAN GǑU (Surprise Attack [-3], Minelayer, Hacker], Killer Hacking Device, Holoprojector) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Madtraps ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27) Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15) YÁOZĂO PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 5) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 5) GROUP 2 5 SHÀNG JÍ (Hacker, Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt ( ) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 41) JUJAK Breaker Combi Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 30) JUJAK Spitfire, Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32) CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) 4 SWC | 298 Points Open in Infinity Army
It makes me sad that setting suppressive fire with a command token drops a unit out of holomask. I had dreams of setting up a TG (holomasked as a zhanshi) facing slightly the wrong direction with suppressive fire on it, then peppering AD troops or other flankers with combi rifle fire as they walked or dropped behind it. Sadly there is no way to use the 360 visor this way, though I had to go through the rules carefully to figure it out.
You still can use holoecho state to fudge an inch around a corner to get into a better position after going into suppressive fire though.
Least of all to the faction that's supposed to get the best of everything for free. But I digress, Tian Guo are trash, bin them. One of the few times I'm not at all bothered by the absent physical model, there's no good reason to even worry about putting one on the table. For the premium he costs and the mediocre performance he provides, there's always something better that you could be spending your points on.
I actually think the tian Gou is a potentially decent killer hacker choice IN Yu Jing. (Cross faction they are very expensive for what they bring). But for 1 more point than the kanren, unless you really want some forward deployment, brings a bit more utility. Madtraps, Holo and 360 mean it can provide a road block defense in a pinch. While surprise attack and WIP 14 makes it a pretty good basic killer hacker for scalping out enemy hackers via the guilang repeater. I need to test it more but I'm seeing some potential.
