Can sepsitorized troops participate in a coordianted order?

I would say that they cannot be included in coordinated orders because they're not in a combat group. For example, if your Charontid is in group 1 and sepsitorizes Achilles, Achilles is then actived by orders from group 1. However, if on the next turn you move the Charontid to group 2, Achilles will follow along and also subsequently be activated via group 2 orders.

I assume your followup is about if sepsitorized troops still take up slots in the combat groups of the original owner. Answer: It's not really clear!

First, combat groups:

https://infinitythewiki.com/Army_List#Combat_Group

A Combat Group is a closed group of Troopers with a maximum number of members no greater than 10.

When the total number of Troopers making up an Army List is more than 10, the player must organize the Troopers into separate Combat Groups.

When creating the Army List, the player must assign each Trooper to a Combat Group; he can create extra Combat Groups as needed, as long as the total number of Troopers in each one is no greater than 10.

A Combat Group cannot normally be reorganized during the game. Because of this, players are not allowed to transfer Troopers or their Orders from one Combat Group to another.
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That just talks about at time of army list creation, and calls out that you can't normally change contents during the game. But command tokens let you swap them around, so let's look at those rules:

https://infinitythewiki.com/Command_Tokens#Command_Tokens:_Executive_Use

• Permanently move an allied Trooper to a different Combat Group, but respecting the 10 members limit.

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Well that's not actually very helpful. Maybe unconscious and dead have clues?

https://infinitythewiki.com/Unconscious

This doesn't talk about combat groups at all, but does talk about models recovering. This at least implicitly impacts the "respecting the 10 members limit" line above, as you could otherwise get 11 models in a single group by leveraging doctors.

https://infinitythewiki.com/Dead

Death doesn't explicitly mention that it frees a combat group slot, either, but it does say it's irreversible under normal rules.

 

I’d guess that Dead (irreversible null state) and Sepsitorized (irreversible null state) both permanently remove a trooper from its original Combat Group.

I further suspect that a Sepsitorized trooper joins the Combat Group of the Sepsitorizing trooper, because otherwise the rule about “not counting toward the maximum number of members the Combat Group can contain” is a non sequitur. If it’s not in that Group, there is no way it could have counted toward that limit, so saying it doesn’t count implies that it’s in that Group but, like a synched unit, it doesn’t take up a trooper slot. That’s also consistent with Sepsitorized troopers not generating Orders during the Order Count, again much as synched models do not generate their own Orders.

 

I believe they should not be able to be activated with coordinated orders.

 

The Trooper Characteristics rule defines "Training" as "Order contributed by the Trooper to the Order Pool" (Regular or Irregular).

A sepsitorized trooper doesn't contribute an order to the pool, so I'd say that its Training is neither Regular nor Irregular. (The original profile before being sepsitorized would have been either Regular or Irregular, but we know that a trooper's Training can change during the game. For example during Loss of Lieutenant, or due to Inspiring Leadership.)

Since "only Troopers with the same Training (Regular/Irregular) can participate in a Coordinated Order," I'd say that a sepsitorized Trooper can't coordinate with either Regular or Irregular Troopers.

 

Being Null does not alter the training of a trooper, it merely prevents the order from being generated.

Having generated an order in the current turn is not required to be a certain training (otherwise, a trooper that was doctored, who didn't generate an order would not be able to be in a coordinated order)

This is the tricky part of the rule.
"Troopers in this state may be activated and receive Orders from the Order Pool of the Combat Group of the Trooper who caused them to enter Sepsitorized state. A Sepsitorized Trooper does not count towards the maximum number of members the Combat Group may contain."

Is it part of the group? It does mention that it "does not count towards the maximum number of members the Combat Group may contain.", so I'd be tempted to say it is considered to be part of the group, otherwise this part of the rule does not make any sense.

If it is not part of the group, does the part that says "may be activated and receive Orders from the Order Pool of the Combat Group of the Trooper who caused them to enter Sepsitorized state" enough to overrite the restriction from group requirement of Coordinated Orders? Regular Orders also normally have the same restrictions of being in the same group, it does overrite the same part about them, I think this rule is more specific and intented to overrite it. This part of the rule does not specify that the orders you can receive are only Regular Orders, just "Orders" which includes Coordonated Orders.

 

Citation?

The only rule I've been able to find on the subject is the definition of Training as "Order contributed by the Trooper to the Order Pool." A trooper in a Null state doesn't contribute an order to the pool.

I don't read "Order contributed by the Trooper to the Order Pool" as "the order the Trooper contributed to the pool at the start of the current turn." I read it as "the order the Trooper will contribute to the pool each turn."

As far as I can tell, the only scenario in which it matters is when a Sepsitorized trooper wants to participate in a coordinated order. There's no other scenario I can think of where a trooper is in a Null state, and it matters what that trooper's Training is. So I don't think it's obvious that troopers retain their Training while in a Null state. And if they don't, it provides a solution to the OP question which makes a lot of sense to me.

 

Would a Unconscious trooper be a different training than if it was not Unconscious?

Did N3 treat training the same way? Were we able to Coordinated Regeneration for example?

 

I have nothing to contribute on whether a unit's training changes (only my suspicion that only an explicit rule can change training; so they remain Regular) other than this:

Yes, but if they're all eating dirt they'd all be the same (lack of) training anyway

 

As far as I can tell, there's no scenario in N4 in which an Unconscious trooper's training would matter. So, probably the rules don't contemplate the question one way or the other.

But if it mattered, then yeah, arguably since Training means what type of order a trooper contributes to the pool, and unconscious troopers don't contribute orders to the pool, an unconscious trooper's Training is "none".

Or not, of course, but then you're back to the more convoluted questions around whether the sepsitorized trooper is in a combat group. My solution is cleaner :-)

[From a narrative perspective, a sepsitorized trooper is pretty close to a mindless zombie, so he ought not to retain his military training anyway. Certainly not to the extent that he should now be able to engage in coordinated maneuvers with a bunch of aliens he only just met. FWIW.]

 

I would say that zombies are not conductive to teamwork. But on the more serious, rules side, I'd concur that they cannot, because they are in a Null state, generate no orders, and belong to the same group their sepsitorizer (funny thought: if I move that troop to another combat group, would the sepsitorized troop move with it?).

It could be argued that it's training is "Null", so you could make a coordinated order with 4 troops in a null state trying to do the same thing, but only sepsitorized troops can receive orders, so...

https://infinitythewiki.com/Inspiring_Leadership

I would argue that yes, training can change during game, since killing Joan or Wallace, for example, would fail the Requirements check, thus making the troops affected by their leadership revert to irregulars when generating orders...

Because it is possible to have a full group and sepsitor another, for a total of 11 (or more!!). In N3, whith the minesweeper gear present on baggagebots, it was possible to do so with AI beacons too...

 

I addressed this in my response, and my answer is yes. It says to use the group the model is in, not the group the model was in at the time of sepsitorization. Now, what happens if the sepsitorizing model is killed? Presumably it's sticky, and the controlled troop continues receiving orders from that same group, but if you really twisted things, you could try to argue that it stops being able to be activated. Also, everything that has Sepsitor also has Mnemonica, which does allow you to switch combat groups and brings in ambiguous topics about model identity.