What do people like much about the gecko? It's definitely cheaper, which is nice, but otherwise seems relatively standard. Compared to a kriza at a similar price, it's got an extra wound and more speed but loses mimetism. Given it's called the Gecko, i wish it had climbing plus...... Might make the Lizard more interesting too.
- 3 wounds - For CJC, some amazing Duo options (2 geckos charging up the board with a shared 4 orders, or an Evader Engineer buddy come to mind) - Dam 15 multi-marksman or Dam 17 Mk12 (honestly, brings it up to around HMG level of Kriza) - Models are cool looking - AV 9 in cover
It also gets Tactical Awareness. The main reason TAG were terrible in N3 was not that crit auto-wounded them, it was that for the same cost, you could get so much more orders. In N4, the main way you break the hard limit set on orders is by taking TAGs. They went from a negative order efficiency to a positive one.
Its more durable than the Kriza, cheaper than the kriza in both SWC and points (massive plus in vanilla), it is a specialist where the Kriza isn't, Both profiles have guns with better damage output than the Kriza meaning it can actually kill stuff where the Kriza is more than likely to bounce off and be a waste of orders, it has a more versatile weapons loadout with a chaion colt and disposable 32 gun, less susceptible to guided shenanigans than the Kriza, and it brings and extra order. all the Kriza brings is +1B, a -3 mod and can't be stolen, meh.
the gecko got its chain colt upgraded to a proper chain rifle now, and since its use is a BS attack the +2 damage applies to it too. Damage 15 large teardrop template has been a pretty big deterrent for me when close range units can’t kill it in one order. They tend to avoid it lol.
Szally BTS 9 is gold in this edition. HMC is sliglty less powerfull in Aro than a Multi HMG, but it's stronger on the active turn. If I had to play a TAG I would lay Szally all the way. Gecko have different roles, they act more like a buffed HI.
gfUADVNhbHp5ICsgR2Vja2+BLAIBCQGBpAEBAAKBsAEBAAOBlwEFAASGDwABAAWBpQEEAAaBpQEDAAeESgEBAAiE+wEEAAmBpgEEAAIHAYGWAQEAAoGpAQEAA4GpAQEABIGcAQEABYGcAQEABoGTAQMAB4GTAQMA
It took me multiple games to start playing with their better speed and armor and I still didn't notice the chainrifle... I like the Geckos because of the low cost high damage guns. AP 15 DAM is not an easy thing to get for us.
KB might be more capable of winning the f2f, and the threat range could be longer with HMG. But Geckos have TA, the damage output could be menacing, swcs are lower, and more durable. If you could manage to get it closer to the enemies, it's gonna be a hot punch.
And when you can Duo it with Engineers / Smoke / Eclipse or pair it with premium Eclipse / Guided / B5 HRMCs then getting it into range isn't particularly hard.
I don't think many PanO players would agree with this statement. Dragoes is essential in Acontacimento, cheap, fast, versatile and heavy hitting, easily covered with a bunch of mines and Naga KHDs. Cutter in Varuna and Vanilla is a go to as well, the most powerful gun platform in the game, which can protect itself by going into marker state. Tikbalag in MO is an auto include and one of the most powerful units in PanO and the game in general. The Uhlan is a solid discounted version of the Cutter. Tags simply require a different approach to the game and the key is to use them in a very reserved way, covering them with AROs and ending your turn near or in your own DZ.
Interventors. They are our core strength, and you'll take it either way. Even if I had a Szalamandra, I wouldn't use it to take down TAGs, I'd use my repeaters and interventors to crush it into the ground. I said they were average, not bad. They're all viable in lists. However, they're not overpowered (other than the MO Tik), unlike stuff like the Kirza and Interventors. I agree with the Dragoes, but its there to fill a gap in the list as opposed to being good compared to everything else. At BTS 6, Interventors can take it down and not even blink. TAGs are way too vulnerable to hacking, and there are too many ways to get high B out of troops. I'd rather TAGs have +1B to their weapons, rather than +1 DAM. Burst has always been king due to F2F rolls. DAM is easily bypassed by hacking. Hacking should be a straight -1 STR, rather than spending multiple orders getting your TAG out of IMM/POS/ISO state. TAGs need an overhaul as a whole, they're simply inferior. You're almost always better off taking more/better infantry, be it expensive HI or a cheap hacker to shut down TAGs
That's some solid N3 thinking there, mate. While I will agree that TAGs aren't the perfect end-all/be-all solution (and they shouldn't be), they have gotten way more usable in N4, even the no-frills standard stuff that's just packing ARM8/BS14 is good enough due to changes in order generation and damage (both dealing more damage and taking more damage). Realistically speaking, an Interventor will have as much a hard time dealing with a properly supported TAG as an AP-carrying soldier. Other TAGs and models with Burst 4 AP weaponry are probably the best investment for dealing with this stuff in N4 (again, a good thing. Especially considering hackers are already slightly better in this edition anyways.) Plus, this is one of those 'why not both?' situations: taking hackers doesn't preclude taking a TAG, on the contrary, they complement each other on a list. On the other hand, the kriza does compete with a TAG in a list due to its cost and SWC.
I would suggest the problem is not the TAG. TAGs, MBTs in particular, Are the Meta now. Quite frankly, the fact that you think direct wounds would be a benefit to TAGs relative to programs that dont really render an MBT combat ineffective when played correctly really illustrates that point.
Really like the MMR Gecko otherwise I think Manned TAGs got shafted yet again. The game is a lot more deadly with more points to spend on less slots, buffed E/M, buffed Hacking and the addition of anti armor options (mostly AP upgrades) and new CC with insane DAM values. New cover helps a bit but not too much if you're S7 and can't go Prone. What most TAGs didn't do in N3 was reflect their point costs in the sum of its parts. Damage output and durability for an N3 Lizard just where nowhere near good enough to stand between a Kriza Borac and a Cutter. N4 tweaked the price in a way that gives pretty much all TAGs a relatively linear price cut. Which in turn ends up amplifying the problem with the differences in between a min maxed REM Pres TAG and a "flavourful" Manned TAG. There is no way a Szalamandra is priced correctly next to a Dragao in terms of the value of the differences. Not everyone should have the same min maxed tools for each job, but the pricetags on everyone's tools should follow the same standard to reflect the effectiveness of the package deal in the final pricetag. The Gecko manages that. 3 STR a nice to have Pilot and effectively a DAM15 Multi Spitfire for a reasonable cost is nice. Guija and Maggie are very expensive considering how fragile relative to their points they are to frontal assaults from a Mimetic AP HMG relative to their REM:Pres cousins in O-12 and PanO. The Iguana is just not okay in an edition where the Montesa Tik got 17 points cheaper in the edition transition. Lizard and Szally aren't terrible but simply less optimized version of better TAGs for not enough of a price advantage to make up for the performance difference. In the end you could call them a result of some sort of balancing philosophy. It looks like not everyone is supposed to have the absolutely best version of everything and I can agree with that. Where I don't agree is that instead of a unique version of a heavy TAG that's still effective in a different way, we got unique versions of heavy TAGs that are less effective with questionable uniqueness to attempt to make up for it.
I've just started to accept that Rem Pres TAGs are deliberately undercosted as a faction feature. CB knows that a Dragao is better than a Salzy, but prices them practically the same because PanO needs the Dragao to be excellent to function. Whereas Nomads can cope with a sub-optimal TAG and still be balanced. You see this in Nomads in the way our REMs and MI are deliberately undercosted as a faction feature.
Might be slightly being aside from the main topic, but since there was a dynamic fluctuation of troop costs recently, I'm having a hard time getting a grip on this. Can I ask you for examples, or any comparison groups you have in mind?
