If Carmen and Batard both engage the same enemy in CC, and Carmen declares a CC attack with her Heavy Pistol (+1B), what burst CC attack does she make? B2 or B3? References: Burst MODs: If Modifiers (MODs) affect Burst (B), toopers with more than one of these MODs may only apply one of them at a time. CC with multiple troopers: When declaring a CC Attack, the Player must select one Trooper or Peripheral activated by the Order. That Trooper or Peripheral performs the CC Attack and obtains a +1 MOD to B for each Allied Trooper or Peripheral that is not in a Null or Immobilized State, and is in Silhouette contact with their target.
Curious, where did you find the first reference? The one I find has an additional and important word "if these Modifiers". Seems like that restriction only applies to MODs in brackets https://infinitythewiki.com/Skills_and_Equipment_in_Infinity#MODIFIERS_.28MODS.29 If these Modifiers (MODs) affect Burst (B), they are only applied during the Active Turn. Troopers with more than one of these MODs may only apply one of them at a time.
@Mahtamori that's the wording I'm referencing - I summarised it, although to my mind I didn't think the omission of the word 'these' was relevant - but you're right, it's in the section about MODs derived from skills and equipment, so I suppose it doesn't apply to MODs that aren't generated by skills and equipment?
Hmm. Yeah, given that the rule also says that "these" burst mods are only applied during the active turn, but the gang up burst mod is also applied in the reactive turn, I'd agree that "these" is referring specifically to mods from skills and equipment. Also if I recall, a +1B skill mod does stack with the +1B fireteam bonus, right? (I haven't followed it closely, just have a vague sense of a lot of whining about a B6 Kriza.)
@QueensGambit it does, but that's because it specifically says it does - the fireteam burst bonuses are a skill.
If the team-up Burst bonuses had to obey the clause about not stacking Burst bonuses then you’d only ever get +1B from them no matter how many allies were in silhouette contact with the target, given the way the rule is worded (each ally grants +1B). I know that’s not the intuitively correct reading, but technically it just says you get +1B, not +X Burst where X = number of allies also in contact with target. So it seems pretty clear that no matter which way you slice it, restricting B bonus stacking for ganging up in melee isn’t RAI.
Yup - I think the answer in this case is the one @Mahtamori intimated, which is that the restriction on burst bonuses is a restriction in skills that provide a burst bonus.
Stricly speaking, BS weapons do not apply +B mods to CC attacks. A pistol, however, is both a BS weapon and a CC weapon. So a model with a Pistol (+1B) that uses it as a CC weapon is using a CC weapon with +1B, and so will be B2 in CC.
Thus the “is it intended to?” And here is the answer in the FAQ: FAQs & Errata N4 FAQ Version: 1.0, Jan 2021 Q: Do Pistols with (+1B) or (+2B) apply the additional Burst in CC Mode? A: Yes, but only in the Active Turn. Related Pages: CC Attack, Skills and Equipment in Infinity
I mean, if the FAQ has specifically confirmed the rules as written (that a CC weapon with +B functions as you'd expect) then we can safely assume it's part of the game, so yes, I suppose it's intended to? I'm not sure I understand the question.
It's not, strictly speaking it's a BS Weapon with a CC Mode. Nothing stops the +B mods of BS Weapon applying to CC Attacks - Pistols are just the only BS Weapons that can be used in CC Attacks. Compare instead Trench Hammers which are Mixed Weapons and have a BS Weapon Mode and a CC Weapon Mode. mumbles something about Fireteam mods
Right, there was some sort of debate about fireteam burst bonus actually working in CC with pistols, but IIRC we have no confirmation for that.
That mischaracterises "the debate". * The Pistol rules say that it's a BS Weapon with a CC Mode. * The Fireteam rules that that BS Weapons get +1 Burst in a 3+ person Fireteam. Nobody has actually put up a decent argument why the Pistol isn't still a BS Weapon while being used in CC Mode and, as a result, should not benefit from the Fireteam bonus. Nobody actually argues that this is the intended way to play it, yet. But we have no confirmation that the way everyone plays it - which is not what the rules say - is actually correct. I was simply pointing out that the way @RobertShepherd phrased his response wasn't technically correct. Unlike Mixed Weapons, Pistols don't have a BS Weapon Mode and a CC Weapon Mode; rather, they are BS Weapons with two usage modes, a Burst Mode and a CC Mode.
