Well it seems that they managed to make Nomad sectorials relevant. Back when I played N2 and start of N3, people usually considered Vanilla stronger. Now, whenever people bring them up everything is linked. Anyway, it kinda seems like we need a separate "Are Nomads OP" thread, yeah?
I guess. They also have drop troop deployable repeaters, which can be fairly reliable as well. A lot of other factions have to deal with similar issues without getting anything in return. OCF and USARF both have fragile command structures in that sense, but they don't have a godlike hacking game in return.
I'll have to be more careful with my back line defences in the future. Now, let's bury this information in meaningless bickering so as few people who play Nomads get reminded about it as possible.
Not really. Everyone just seemed to agree that when they say Nomads they really mean "EVAders, Morans and Jazz".
Literally just demonstrated in the post before yours how Nomads don't have absolute supremacy in hacking, though they may be the best at cost efficiency in hacking, they simply don't have the best Hackers (i.e, Hackers with the highest stats - that would be Aleph or Combined, and fair enough). They do have the best ability to put out a repeater network (not too distantly followed by Combined, Aleph, PanO(!) and anyone who can link Valerya). Thankfully thats finally not a disadvantage again this edition anymore even if some people are struggling to get used to that. Change is ok. TAGs are really good this edition too, did you notice that as well? I feel like they might be a bit too good, but thankfully hacking actually being good is a little bit of a counter. Oh great, I'll just add in my cheap Nomad CoC, Strategos, Inspiring Presence, REM Pres TAGs, Durable multi wound WIP 15+ specialists, BS13 wildcard, Mimetism + MSV Heavy weapon gunfighters, Impersonators, Infiltrating HI, etc into my Nomad lists. Oh wait. Nomads have plenty of things they lack or have weaknesses at (Command skills / structure etc being a very obvious weakness to anyone who actually bothers to look). Just because you don't recognise what they don't have, doesn't mean they have it. Bit odd to ask a question and then deny the answer in it, it gives me the impression you have an opinion and no interest in learning anything that might contradict it - but I'll answer the question on face value; PanO - The shooting faction Ariadna - The Camo faction Tohaa - The powerful special alien rules faction Haqq - The Asymmetrical faction Aleph - The best of everything faction Yu-Jing - The HI and some of everything faction O12- The Elite of humanity faction Combined - The also best of everything, but alien faction. I play all those except Tohaa and O12 btw. They are all the best at some things IMHO.
Seems easy enough: Make Evaders true 2 wound HI, reduce Moran AVA in vanilla to 1 and nerf Jazz to the point where she is not an autotake and take away her White Noise. Tadaa!
Sure, an then Give CJC another type of Hacker that is actually good so they don't have to rely on an AVA 1 squishy keystone character to make their hacking at least as good as PanO.
Wait, who has BTS 9 hackers? Sounds like you're wrong again. Just because the fanbase says that Nomads are weak at things, doesn't mean they're actually weak at things. Let's not make the mistake of using circular logic to assume that the factions are balanced.
PanO. Just because the fan base says that Nomads are strong at everything doesnt mean that they're actually strong at everything. Nomads is the "OK at everything (except leadership) and very good at Hacking" faction. That's actually really great because it let's you dabble in a lot of gameplay without having to shift factions: but (by and large)* they're out performed by factions that focus on those things. * I - and pretty much every Nomad I talk to - fully agree that there are some troops and profiles that are way above the curve and wouldn't hurt to be judiciously nerfed. But that's common to pretty much every single faction.
EVAders being NWI SI is a nerf in a sectorial with Wildcard Drs and Cubes. Remove Spec Ops, Remove Engineer from the AP Spit. EVAders are now very strong but are not absurd. Alternatively, drop SI and make them MI. At which point they'll increase in price and get significantly worse.
Not sure if you're serious but I agree that CJC could need some in between option for hacking. Wildcat hacker actually has good stats and would do but a defensive Wildcat link is so expensive. Maybe some Barid-like sectorial exclusive wildcard hacker. One can dream I guess.
The highest WIP Hacker in CJC outside an AVA 1 squishy 1W special character is 13. The Highest BTS is 6. PanO has better than both. CJC are not great at hacking outside Jazz (and Valerya to an extent). Jazz is a very good hacker though, for cost. And it's appropriate that Nomads have very good, if generally squishy Hackers. Whereas Combined and Aleph for example have very good, expensive but durable super hackers, again, as appropriate.
You still have the option to not use NWI. At least giving him full 2 wounds would raise his price a lil which is one of the big complaints. I like your proposed changes too.
Wildcats as Wildcards rather than EVAders would have made this an option. Still very expensive for a Hacker because of all the combat skills you're paying for. MB Hackers are actually really solid. Just EXTREMELY expensive. Honestly, making them an Lt option would work though (you essentially need 1-2 other MB if you take a MB Hacker whereas making the Hacker an Lt option makes it 0-1). Either of those options would allow replacing Jazz as an autotake. Tl;dr HD MB Tinbot Lt would be solid at giving CJC a way to make use of their Repeaters other than Jazz/Valerya which would allow nerfing Jazz significantly without upsetting CJC's reliance on Hacking defence.
Let me just say that I disagree with two elements of the recent direction this thread has taken - dogpiling Nomads and using AVA changes to fix fucked up rules. These problems are not unique to Nomads. One. Two, we shouldn't be looking at reducing peoples' options to fix balance problems in the core rules set. If I routinely played Nomads I'd respond defensively to a lot of this stuff as well.
AVA reductions are useful though for increasing the definition between Sectorials and Vanilla. AVA1 Morans in Vanilla and AVA2 in CJC AVA2 Jags in Vanilla and AVA4 in CJC AVA2 Daylami in Vanilla and AVA4 in HB AVA2 Ghazu in Vanilla and AVA4 in HB AVA2 Kum in Vanilla Changes like that don't actually close off major options in Vanilla but they do put limits that increase the desirability of sectorials without needing extremely powerful Fireteams.
I'm very aware that PanO has BTS 9 hackers. The guy I was replying to was talking about Combined Army and ALEPH. I disagree, though if you primarily play BJC I could see why you might think that. I generally don't see Nomad players agreeing with that. They've found their noninteractive game mechanic, and they're holding on to it with both hands.
Except you see Jazz in every fucking list. I haven't seen a CJC list in N4 without her. And WIP 13 is fine if you have a -6 Tinbot. You're selectively choosing individual components of their hacking game that seem inoffensive while avoiding looking at the whole picture, because it gives the lie to your argument. Interventor is plenty durable. Moreover, outside of vanilla CA those hackers aren't available, whereas the only Nomad sectorial that doesn't have access to a poorly-balanced hacker that's waaaay too good is BJC. You'll notice that it's only the EI Aspect hackers that retained free upgrade programs in the N4 changeover, while all the other EI hackers got nerfed to sub-Nomad levels. The Nomads, of course, kept their free upgrade programs.
