No forced full link, wild cards allowed - What's the difference between 'crusader fireteam only' and "Joan counts as hospitaller for links"?
────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 KNIGHT HOSPITALLER (Lieutenant) MULTI Rifle / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 31) KNIGHT OF THE HOLY SEPULCHRE (NCO) AP Heavy Machine Gun / Heavy Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1 | 56) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 43) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges ( | TinBot: Firewall [-3]) / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 39) TEUTONIC KNIGHT (Specialist Operative) Submachine Gun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 21) TEUTONIC KNIGHT (Specialist Operative) Submachine Gun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 21) TEUTONIC KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 28) BLACK FRIAR FTO (Sixth Sense) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Nanopulser / MULTI Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 25) TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14) PALBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15) PALBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) 5.5 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army A very MORAT list. lol Honestly, LT Teutonic knight in a haris is probably better for more flexible list building. Its really hard to pass up a 2 wound LT for 19 points
A more generalist list but still very morat like brute force. I thought about having a Teutonic haris but I just had to include a KotHS and KHD to make the list well rounded. Also, I like having a fast attack option and the Montesa is a very interest choice for that role. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 1 KNIGHT OF THE HOLY SEPULCHRE (NCO) AP Heavy Machine Gun / Heavy Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1 | 56) TEUTONIC KNIGHT (NCO) Spitfire / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 31) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO (Lieutenant, Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 43) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges ( | TinBot: Firewall [-3]) / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 39) BLACK FRIAR FTO (Sixth Sense) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Nanopulser / MULTI Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 25) CROSIER (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13) CROSIER (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13) TRINITARIAN (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D-Charges, Flash Pulse, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23) TRINITARIAN (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D-Charges, Flash Pulse, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23) KNIGHT OF MONTESA Red Fury, Chain-colt / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 34) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
stop doing LI lists we are in N4 all list have 15 orders now we don't have enough free order cheats in MO
I'm thinking on playing unlinked SO Teutons to have small, evasive and fast specialists to reach objectives with few orders. This should free the slot for a RF Montesa, if I ever need one.
In playing with MO lists, I think this is optimal for what I'd like to play. 5 man HI links still don't do it for me, but MO can now cover a lot of ground and have a balanced list. Tik is the fire superiority and 2 orders in 1 group. Can kill heavy targets and strongest ARO pieces. Teuton Harris has a specialist and can use the 2 Lt orders from the KC. I'd prefer a 4th Teuton of course, even for the Lt role, but there aren't many options. The Montesa is a specialist and close range hitter that also brings a lot of order efficiency. This is why I like it more than the TO options. Blackfriar HRL is a very solid ARO, especially when coupled with the TO Sniper. The rest is orders and support units. Zw9taWxpdGFyeS1vcmRlcnMRVGlrK1RldXRvbiBIYXJyaXOBLAIBCgEPAQcAAoYZAQIAA4YYAQEABIYYAQEABYMDAQMABiEBAwAHHgEGAAgeAQUACR4BAgAKEwEBAAICAYX3AQEAAoS5AQQA
Looking at Teutons makes it really hard to not max their AVA. Even if you're not running them as a Core or Haris you'd still want 19-21 points dudes that can be 6-2 combat Specialists, Lts, Warbands, DZ defense or CCPZF Solutions Inc. Creative Coordinated Panzerfaust Solutions Inc, now in your neighbourhood to solve problems from Kamau Snipers links to Supressive Fire Avatars. It's a bit insane Vanilla got the Lt and the Specialist Profiles. At AVA1, but with significantly better setup for Joan to utilize the Teuton as a solo piece. As someone who values Krakots as one of the biggest selling points for PanO Vanilla, Teutons are quite different but share that they can trade evenly or in your favor vs basically everything. Old MO had a hard time for non essentials like this. N4 MO can fit the guy in and loves the utility of a Warband Specialist or Lt - potentially with a KothS, for the weirdest functional Lt + CoC setup in the game. The Teuton Core gives me a bit of a headache. Just a bit too expensive as a defensive Link with a KoJ ML + X. Mostly because +X can't be an OS Paramedic because it ceased to exist and that's a damn shame. You could leverage the Teutons as MLs, but that mostly drives the price up instead of down for the Link. Might have to go with a token (HRL) OS and add in a Trauma Doc with Palbot as the best option. The other option is to have a body less, no HRL but a linked Medikit for Cubeless Magisters by settling for an Infirmarer as the 5th guy. For aggressive 5 man I don't see anyone beating a Santiago Spitfire. Specialist Operative, E/M Grenades, Frenzy. FK is faster and BTS9 with easily accessible Firewall a close second. The 5th guy is tough again. Santiago KHD is a naturally nice fit, OS keeps the average cost down, but again doesn't get to be a Paramedic anymore, Infirmarer is again the only Doc/Paramedic you get to drag with you if that's the thing you want. The Link building is not as nice as in Sval, that's for sure.
Thats precisely why they are only AVA 3 ;( Funny enough it seems thats the main reason why Crosiers exist ;D To not allow "cheap" OS paramedic into every team, thus giving the reason to exist for that terrible Lazarus gap-filler. And we still have Hospitallers who are suddenly bad in this whole mess of links and weird limitations :D
The way they designed Lazarus is almost insulting. A terrible unit that they want you to take only because there's no other option, as they've removed the good option only because of the Lazarus.
Fully agree. Not against the idea of a wildcard doctor that is pricey but useful, though, it's just the execution of price increase was quite disappointing. Let's see what Infirmarer is not: - A good close combatant, however, pays for mediocre CC20 and monofilament blade - A good gunfighter (or generally a guy you'd like to put in danger), but pays for a good BS13 and either Combi or Boarding shotgun - A good survivalist with W1 and no other skills/stats to back it up like NWI, but pays for ARM2 and BTS3 - A good Crosiers or Hospitallers link filler, since Crosiers have a Paramedic; Hospitallers have an actual proper doctor that does all the things mentioned above WAY better than Infirmarer would for just 8-10 points extra, while they can still have Order Sergeant and Konstantinos for a cheaper / more useful link filling. All the above while being really mediocre at Doctoring too, just WIP13 and that's it. In most of the cases, he'd want to use his Medikit to back the knights up on 14s twice instead. However: since Teutons lack their own doctor, now we all gotta pay a Doctor tax for trying to bring the cheap Teuton link forward. Meanwhile, Infirmarer is more expensive than a regular Teuton, slower, flimsier, worse at CC and generally is not needed with his weaponry, since Teutons carry around light shotguns / Spitfires / SMGs anyway. In order to make the decision of taking him a bit less insulting, CB could consider those options: - Reduce Infirmarer's CC/BS/ARM/BTS to get the point cost down, take away his Mono CC - I believe, that's what people would like the most. Even at 20 points, he would become way more acceptable, and then people would see that as a reasonable price for a wildcard doctor. - Make Infirmarer good at close combat by giving him Martial Arts or NBW or even Berserk, so he would pose an actual threat in CC. Replace boarding shotgun/combi with light shotgun/SMG to keep the points down. - Give him extra survivability with NWI/Dogged/Shock Immunity, so he can feel like "semi" HI and would feel more at home in Teutons. 6-2 MOV would also benefit quite a lot. It's infringing on Hospi Doctor's territory this way, though. - Give him an interesting gun, like Mk12 or Marksman Rifle, maybe a limited ARO weapon like Panzerfaust or Blitzen - so people would start seeing him in a gunfighter role. Mimetism-3 and MSV1 could also go long way as very useful buffs for a point man. - Provide him with some extra utility - personally, I'd love to see Number 2 or even Tactical Awareness on him (that leadership flag isn't there for nothing, right?). The Sensor could be great to help his link team with infiltrator revealing, Tinbot for extra hacking protection, Repeater, Holomask all could provide him with an extra angle. Finally: - Make him an actually good doctor. WIP14, Doctor+3, Medikit B2 (B3 in the link), Doctor(2W) even would all make him worth taking, since you would at least know that he will do his dedicated job really well. And most of the improvement points above would require reducing the irrelevant stats to keep the cost the same, making Infirmarer dedicated for the given job, unlike he is right now. All in all, it looks like people would be complaining the most about the certain lack of focus in this unit, and a futile try at being a jack of all trades while acing none. That simply results in pointless cost bloat.
Well, there are few things that won't change, I think: - Outside of the CC, the stats are those of a MI. The Infirmarer is coming from the same mold as the Black Friar, if you compare them - The Doctor skill - The price (because if they wanted it cheaper, the Infirmarer would already be as such) So, what we can ask for is some swaps like switching the Mono CCW to a regular CCW and get Shock Immunity and a better ammo on the combi rifle, or Drop bears (would be really interesting too to create a defensive perimeter). Maybe an X-Visor would be original for shooting the Medikit from afar while still keeping some accuracy.
- Hey we want CB to change this stupid thing. - You cannot because they did want it this stupid way! - I know they wanted it that way, and that's why I call it stupid. Oh yes, lets make him even pricer and less focused ^^ Well have have enough space in case of HI (arm from 2 to 5 and BTS from 3 to 9), to have a bit more variation with the MI stats (especially that there is nothing preventing classyfying Lazarus as LI or whatever but TAG).
I would now like a doctor tag. Ideally with a dual ap hmg/medigun. Imagine a burst four medikit pew pewing across the table. Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk
