Hello everyone, I am a returning QK player - started in N2 and played lots of N3 games before drifting away shortly after the Ramah Taskforce released (some of you may remember my Captain Muaddib battle reports on the old forums). I've been getting up to speed with the N4 rule set and I've run into a few questions regarding rules and tactics that I'm hoping the community can help me with. Rules (Edit to mark answered rules questions in green) The N4 approach of using mods in "( )" to adjust weapon stats and add special rules has left me a bit confused, in particular this rule: "If these Modifiers (MODs) affect Burst (B), they are only applied during the Active Turn. Troopers with more than one of these MODs may only apply one of them at a time." Does the limit to use only one of "these MODs" refer to burst mods specifically or all MODs that apply to skill? As a practical example, does the Azra'il have to choose between its +1 DAM, +1B, and Continuous Damage MODs when firing the Feuerbach in the active turn? Does Terrain(Total) mean that the unit gets a constant +1 to their first move attribute at all time or is that only when the unit is in an area that has been specifically designated as terrain? Am I correct in understanding that Fire ammunition has become "Continuous Damage" and no longer causes a Burnt state for camouflage units? Is there anything that permanently eliminates Mimetism anymore? I see that Holoechos and Regeneration skills trigger automatically during the states phase if conditions are met, are there any other skills that have a "free" activation like this? (Edit 1) Do hackers still extend the hacking area of other hackers or is that solely limited to repeaters now? Tactics When I last played in N3, my lists relied heavily on Odalisques as a fast moving assault team (usually with an embedded Hafaza FO, supported by a firebase of Kaplans, Djanbazan, or Druze. With N4, it seems like the 4-4 mobility advantage offered by light infantry has been erased and medium infantry appear to offer better armor and specialist options for similar cost.. Are Odalisques still worth taking as 2W light infantry, or have they been supplanted by other units? While the Wildcard rules for Sekban, Odalisques, and Hafza permit many new permutations of link teams, the prohibition on linking with Druze and Kaplans leaves me struggling to design Druze and Kaplan link teams. Druze in particular lack are a unit that I would have previously filled out using Hafza FOs to provide cheap specialists. Are Druze and Kaplan fireteams still viable builds in QK, and if so, what role do you use them for? The change to shotguns, removing the previous impact template rule, has left me confused about whether shotguns are still worthwhile, since you are now limited to either a normal shot or a direct template weapon that can't be used for intuitive attacks. Previously, I used boarding shotgun troops as a strong asymmetrical trade against link teams, as proper maneuvering could put you in a position to limit your face-to-face roll to 1 link member, while still hitting the entire link with damage if you win the face off. Now it feels that shotguns are only for one-on-one attacks or suicide attacks against groups of enemies. How do you use shotguns effectively? It appears that shock weapons are now much more common throughout the Human Sphere. Do you find that Doctors have less utility as a result or are Doctors still an auto-include for most links? As grenade launchers no longer have a positive range band, does anyone still use them? The Druze grenade launcher in a 5 man link for indirect fire support (speculative) was a fun combo in N3 since you would normally be firing at flat BS 12 thanks to the range band and link bonus. In N4, the best you can get is BS-3 even when at 5 link members.
Some random answers: - Terrain(total) only gives +1 while in a difficult terrain zone - Correct about Fire, oops I mean continuous damage. - Shotguns are awesome. If you want to hit a whole link team with it you can usually no longer avoid being killed by return fire. But in return, your two shots auto-hit instead of needing rolls. Plus, although links still get Sixth Sense, Sixth Sense no longer allows Delay. So you walk up to them with your shotgun and they have to choose their ARO right away. If they all Dodge, you shoot them in hit mode and they don't shoot back. If they all shoot, you lay down two auto-hitting templates on them. - Shotguns are also really good in ARO now. You're going to lose the face-to-face anyway, so you hit them with a template on your way out. - Shotguns. - I don't know about QK, but in HB I don't think doctors are an auto-include, but they're still very useful. They have shotguns.
The Azra'il can apply all of those MODs. The rule against stacking MODs refers to identical MODs and is to cover, for example, a model with Mimetism (-3) that also gains Mimetism (-6) through a scenario rule.
Welcome Back! As for your questions: Rules: That rule only applies for Burst Mods. So the Azra'il hits like a truck. This only applies when in difficult terrain. You are correct and there is no way to permanently downgrade mimetism in N4. The only other one that comes to mind is Frenzy. Tactics: IMO, Odalisques have gotten a little better. They are now shock immune, -9 CC Attack works against structure now, wildcard, and have a Multipistol (which allows them to CC with DAM 13 DA). Unknown. I play Vanilla. Shotguns got a sidegrade IMO. They work like burst 2 chain colts and do help with usual Haqqislam trading up. They still dangerous to links but rely on us being a point blank. Our doctors are still excellent. With the 15 model cap, being able to bring units back is important. While the number of shock weapons have not changed, more people are using AP rounds due to the Crit change. This IMO, still needs to be settled. The lack of +3 band hurts the usage of GL a lot, but it now hits up to 32" on flats for Druze and usages the improved E/M ammo (like N3 E/M2). To compensate, Spotlight has gotten easier to use. For QK, the Mobile Brigada, Janissaries, Sekban, and Scarface are the big winners.
Thanks! Using shotguns to force the link to choose before they know whether you are going to fire in hit mode or template mode is a good tip. Do you primarily use shotguns on cheap infantry (like Ghulams) or is it still worthwhile to consider shotgun kits on more expensive medium and heavy infantry as well? That makes sense. The Azra'il and Scarface are both much more intimidating than they were in N3 thanks to the combination of MODs.
Can you elaborate on where you see the utility for Mobile Brigada and Janissaries? The Mobile Briganda hacker with Tinbot (Firewall -6) jumps out as a unique profile, but the lack of linkability makes it hard for me to see where it fits in a list. Janissaries are also a unit that I have always struggled to include, even in previous editions. They seem very vanilla, with no unique skills or weapons, so I tend to gravitate towards Odalisques as an alternative multi-wound unit. I saw that the Janissary BS increased to 14, so maybe I'm underestimating their power. What role would you see a Janissary playing in a QK list? Solo or as part of a link?
The Mobile Brigada Hacker is a decent combat specialist and would be good for the ITS 12 mission Mindwipe. The increase to the Jannisary BS I feel gives it more of a defined role now versus in N3. BS 17 in a full link team brings it to the elite gunfighting level, even if you have to fill two members of the link with the ok Hafza. Rouhani and Leila also make great link team filler. Below is a link that I think could do some work, even though it is SWC heavy: ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 5 LEILA SHARIF (Hacker) Shock Marksman Rifle, E/M Mines, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 20) ROUHANI Submachine Gun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 21) HAFZA Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 17) JANISSARY Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 41) ODALISQUE (360º Visor) Boarding Shotgun ( ) / MULTI Pistol, PARA CC Weapon. (0 | 24) 3 SWC | 123 Points Open in Infinity Army Edit: Note though I am a vanilla player, so this link based on speculation.
I'm coming from HB so this might not be too helpful for you in QK. Our obvious shotgun user is the Fiday, who is always exactly where she needs to be to use the shotgun. (Since she starts in marker state, to force a bad choice she often starts with a token Discover to reveal herself on the first half of the order.) Asawiras have shotguns which is great since they like to get as close as possible to the adversary anyway. But they're unusual in that regard, most heavy infantry prefer to keep their distance. I wish my Ghulam link had more shotguns, for defense, but usually most of the link is taken up with utilities pieces whose shotguns are conspicuously absent.
welcome back, @Muad'dib (that a name ) as i see your rules question was mostly already answered. about difference between Mobile Brigade & Janissary i could quote myself from other tread (just IMHO, but "i am QK player" ): About Druze & Kaplan teams- keep in mind you now can field one of them as harris, you can fill them with two full-power wild cards (Leila & Rouhany), Kaplans also could utilize help of WildBill. in both cases you want them in your army as a fireteam around which you build list idea. for example Kaplans in Mimetism & with 6 BTS looks good alternative to Janissary fireteam choice for a bio-techwore. actually Kaplans & Janissary have synergy cause Wild Bill can join both. Kaplans brings you Multi Sniper in Mimetism, Druze gives you their famous E/M LgL (still potent danger to enemy vulnerable for E/M)
Thank you for the breakdown on the Mobile Brigada. It sounds like you favor the Multirifle + light flamethrower loadout instead of the hacker. Is that because you feel QK has better hacking pieces (like the Al-hawwa) for objectives and area denial, or are the offensive advantages of better weaponry the main driver? With this loadout, would you build your list around two defensive links instead of one offensive and one defensive? Aren't Druze limited to either Fireteam:Duo or Fireteam:Core in QK? I would love to have a Haris of Druze, but that seems to only be available in the Druze sectorial. Rouhani seems like a must-add for a Druze link, but Leila seems to compete against the Druze killer hacker who comes with better armor, Veteran (so no isolation), and a handy pitcher to extend the hacking range. When bringing the E/M LGL, are you primarily looking to use that as an ARO piece or would you actually use it in the active turn even with its low burst? What is the purpose of Wild Bill in a Kaplan link? He seems to cost about the same as a regular Kaplan but his equipment and skills seem underwhelming. Am I missing something?
Burst 3 (4 in a Fireteam) AP+Shock pistols at effective BS16 makes him a deadly close in attacker, even with just a rifle he's more effective against troopers in cover than a Kaplan combi as Marksmanship is generally better than Mimetism -3, plus NWI lets him tank some hits and keep going.
Druze for sure have no harris, i first write it thinking of Kaplans, fixed previous post, re-read it now ;) Druze hacker for sure better, but he cost much more than Leila. Leila best wild card for her point -cost & ability join foreign fireteams. Druze team itself for sure better in their own sectorial, but it also could give somthing to QK - the E/M + Viral ammo for example. Wild bill in Kaplans is best shooter on close distance. just see how he could break in a room with his twin Multi pistols, i think you like it more than just combi from a Kaplan about this: now QK depends more not on a fixed teams, but on a body toss alot. so you cant say you take only defensive or offensive team. you got mixed teams. it works well in N4.
That is a very interesting comment. Now that there are so many permutations of link teams with wildcard, do you find yourself forming and reforming link teams several times throughout the game? This makes me reconsider how I have been thinking about list building. Is the extra command token Ghulam LT worth taking in this situation or is 4 tokens still enough for everything?
Ghulam with +1 CT is a good addition if you want use such a tactic. but trouble is in this case he mostly become obvious Lt on a table, also he cant easily participate in body toss tactics, cause in most cases you want wildcards + one MI/Hi special weapon. Ghulams in this cases have no synergy. so as i see it First tactic in QK - you can afford some standard defensive team of base infantry - Ghulams & Al Waziri. This give you cheap order pool and still potent defense. they still much flexible on their own cause lots of choices. On a saved point you fill list with lots of independent units - like Yuans &/Or Bashi, Azrail or Scarface, Mobile Brigade, Hawwas, Kameel EVO hacker & Shihab TR-Bot's, etc. if you need - you could harden your base infantry team during list build with some wild cards like sekban or odalisque with SWC weapon, but in most cases you not need costly pieces in base team. Second is total body toss, you take some basis from a wild cards & add just one special weapon from Mi/Hi units. like this: Body Toss ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 8 DJANBAZAN Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 34) HAFZA Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15) LEILA SHARIF (Hacker) Shock Marksman Rifle, E/M Mines, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 20) ROUHANI Submachine Gun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 21) ODALISQUE (360º Visor) Submachine Gun, Contender, Nanopulser ( ) / MULTI Pistol, PARA CC Weapon. (0 | 23) SEKBAN Spitfire, Chain-colt(+1B) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 30) JANISSARY Missile Launcher / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 38) GHULAM (Lieutenant [+1 Command Token]) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15) 4.5 SWC | 196 Points Open in Infinity Army you still bring independent support, but now fireteam is more multi tool to help that support units, than in case of not flexible just defensive base infantry team. third tactic is taking specific units for special tasks. like Kaplan or Druze teams. for example - mixed Janissary & Kaplan team for a biotechwore. look closely - in this list you can make core team of Kaplans or Janissary's as you need & make a harris of another ones: Biotech ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 1 KAPLAN MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 29) KAPLAN Spitfire / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 28) WILD BILL Contender / MULTI Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 22) LEILA SHARIF (Hacker) Shock Marksman Rifle, E/M Mines, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 20) ROUHANI Submachine Gun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 21) SEKBAN (Specialist Operative) AP Rifle, Chain-colt(+1B) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24) JANISSARY (Lieutenant) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 34) JANISSARY Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 41) SCARFACE Loadout Gamma & CORDELIA TURNER undefined / undefined. (1.5 | 81) SCARFACE Loadout Gamma AP Spitfire(+1B), Panzerfaust / DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 64) SCARFACE Boarding Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (- | 0) CORDELIA TURNER Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 17) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army anyone can share good Druze list as example of third case? & of course you could MIX this basic patterns, to break your opponents expectations totally
Tangentially related to QK, but does anyone know why the base profile Asawira (AP Rifle, LSG, Shock CCW) is 2 points cheaper than the base profile Janissary (AP Rifle, LSG, Shock CCW), despite have more special skills and better stats in every regard? I don't know why anyone would ever take a Janissary in vanilla.
Because that's what the new formula says it costs. Generally it's presumed that Frenzy is the reason why.
Frenzy makes units cheaper? I feel like the additional of martial arts, berserk, better dodge, regeneration, and stealth should all add up to to more a more expensive model. Back in prior editions the argument in favor of Janissaries was that they were cheap HI, rather than having lots of expensive abilities, but that is no longer the case. Did CB only rebalance some unit costs when N4 dropped or is their new formula actually claiming that Janissaries should pay more for less? I've been out of the loop for a long while, so apologies if this is common knowledge.
Asawiras are fantastic for sure. The frenzy discount is real. Asawiras are unique and faction-defining, whereas Janissaries are just plain line HI similar to what every faction gets. That said, you can't really compare Janissaries to Asawiras since they have very different roles. Asawira is a CQB fighter. Janissaries have HMGs and missile launchers. Asawiras have some specific uses in Vanilla (spitfire as midfield clearer, or doctor with nasmats as midfield fighter/midfield specialist/board-wide healer). Janissaries just aren't designed to fill those particular roles. That doesn't make them inherently worse. If you want a a missile launcher in your list, the Janissary is better than the Asawira!
Generally speaking, Frenzy is a bad thing. :D The principle big adjustment was armor costs and close combat costs were reduced. But since that threw a lot of things off most units saw increases due to higher stats and/or new skills to maintain the price profile that Corvus Belli decided things needed.
