I think you should allow for people who actually like the change and are not trying to "shit you off". To be frank, I don't get too fired up about buying more models. I like buying models and doing new/different stuff with the ones I have.
Guys please calm down, formulate your anger and feedback with less swearwords and we can have a discussion going. No sanctions or personal contacting will happen I fully understand the sentiment and the spirit of the moment, but I do ask for the tension at least between the posters to ease up. Please both understand each others viewpoint and if it can't happen, agree to disagree.
I've got a neat way of dealing with models I can no longer "use". I take the bits off them that I can use and toss the rest in my crucible and melt the bastards down. I have other uses for the metal anyway. I don't play vanilla YJ (have only played JSA from the faction since N2 HS). I lost a handful of units for JSA in the new change. Haramaki ... No great loss, only taken for the ML option anyway. Haven't used them in over 2 years, not likely to miss them. They can lose their arms and weapons and go to the cupboard of shame and await death by crucible. The same as any older model that I no longer need and was only using because the sculpt was "passable". Conversion fodder. Might turn 2 into Keisotsu. They're the same size anyway. Asuka Kisaragi ... Never actually used the model as her profile (only as another Aragoto). As it is, I did repose the figure by rotating the torso, so swapping bits out to make a newer model isn't out of the question and I look forward to converting it. Raiden. Never used one. Won't therefore miss it. (I cannot "miss" what I've never had. ) Not counting the reduced AVA on ninja and oniwaban - but I've only ever used max AVA on ninja once (N2 days) for a "7 TO markers in 300pts" shits&giggles list. I also gained 4 new units to replace them. Overall positive. I don't identify with any of my armies, so I'm unlikely to ever feel strongly about losing stuff. At worst, I'll merely tire of playing the army and game and I'll put them both in the cupboard and go find something else to play. I've been a gamer for over 30 years, something else shiny will come along.
1) Communication. Let's disregard that as soon as they were committed to this change they should've started giving players a heads up their models had a shelf life, not this last minute teaser, drip feed bullshit. I built up my JSA models between October-February, if they had that information out there six months ago I would've avoided this entire scenario. If you're going to fuck a group of players over it's the least bit of courtesy to give them the most amount of warning you can and keep them updated as the situation evolves. But let's put that aside. Let's assume for reasons that this is literally impossible. They still need to fucking communicate. This teehee we know something you don't, here's a bit of information at a time is acceptable when I'm not getting fucked about. Speculation on JSA leaving YJ have been going on for weeks since the first Enough posters went up. We've had weeks of screwing around not sure what's going on. If you're taking shit off players, tell them up front, tell them now, and preferably communicate to them what they're getting in return and when they're getting that. I guarantee you if you deliver them that courtesy they will be significantly less mad because it shows to them that you as a company, give at least a few fucks about them, enough to let them know what's going on. If with this JSA announcement @Bostria had also said "Don't worry Vanilla players, in July you will get IA, and here are a few unit profiles of new models, and here is a special cool link team you will get. We know this change sucks but to get these models we needed to split You Cheeng up because too many models too much the same." There would be significantly less anger. There's an explanation, an apology, and a guarantee things will improve and you won't be left out to hang for an overly long period of time. Right now they're primarily mad not just because you're taking their toys off them but because you're not letting them know you're sorry that this is happening for business needs or whatever reason, you're expecting them to be pleased about it instead. They're not pleased, they're fucking pissed off. You assuming they should be pleased, or not showing that you're not at bare minimum aware that they're upset and something needs to be done about it just creates a loop where they get more and more pissed off with you the longer the lack of communication persists. 2) Olive branch. Where's the fucking olive branch? There isn't one. Again, to the customer, this reeks of you're getting bent over and you'll damn well be happy about it. As previously iterated, they're already angry, this just makes them angrier. You can offer alot of things as an olive branch. You can put up a public apology with an explanation of why this needs to happen such as they can't move forward with Yu Jing because they're over saturated and things need to be split, at a bare minimum this just falls under communication. Other people have suggested in other threads that they take a balance pass on the unit profiles, increase AVAs on popular choices, rebalance stuff like Ninjas so something besides the KHD profile is worth a shit. Again, this shows to the customer that you give at least a few fucks about them and they're going to be less angry about the situation. They're probably still going to be annoyed they need to buy new models, but if you offer them something in return they're already interested in rather than "lul get rekt buddy buy the new faction" they'll take it better. Going back to communication as an olive branch, if you let me know I'm getting Invincible Army in return for losing my JSA models I'm going to be less angry. Right now I hope I get IA, but I also hoped you wouldn't take my fucking Kitsune off me and that didn't get me very far. As a customer I'm in the dark and that pisses me off. If you were really smart, you would've timed the Invincible Army release before the fucking JSA changes. If you show up with IA, then announce that to make room for IA, JSA will be splitting in the near future there will be significantly less anger as you are communicating to the customer and you are giving them something not just taking shit away. Now you're going to say "Hey, isn't that fundamentally still the same problem as your rent a model complaints?" You're right, it definitely is. It's handled better because you're not leaving a group of customers out to hang, you're showing that you're paying attention to them and by doing that you give a flying fuck about them. They're still pissed off you're taking some of their toys off them and they probably need to buy new stuff, but they're going to take it a hell of alot better if you at least try to show that they are in your interests and that you give a shit whether they're getting the raw end of the deal, and that you're trying to do something to at least soften the blow.
I think you should take a walk and let the adults talk. Neither Mao or I are warcors and both of us think you're petulant whining is irritating. Yeah you're mad, that doesn't give you free reign to come shit over every thread and get pissed at people who get sick of it. Maybe the only answer here is you take a break as the release schedule of little toy dollies is getting under your skin waaaaay more than it should.
IMHO the problem is twofold. 1. Removal of multiple units from a faction could be made less painful if said units remained, but with lower AVA, as it seems unrealistic that everyone, with no exception, decided to rebel. 2. These two new sectorials look odd. Removal of some units from Yu Jing is a pain for YJ players, but it could be at least partially mitigated by logic behind new sectorials. Druze Bayram is OK, because Druze are an old and well known PMC. The two new armies could have been built around, say, Kaplan Tactical and O-12-lead mission (because secessionist movement crisis). Instead they don't even look like themed entities, but a bunch of random units thrown together, and what's more, the units in them have new abilities unavailable to them in their original armies (mixed links, unique profiles, nice things etc.) Parts of some units have more flexibility and deployment options than said units in their native factions. In reality this could never happen to chunks of regiments, battalions or some special forces teams because in their native faction they have logistics, tactical doctrines, synergy etc etc etc to support them. As soon as they leave all that behind, they stop being themselves and more likely will become a brand new unit to correspond to the new situation. This last one makes people in our group wonder the most.
Sure. And I’d post once or twice about it. Then I’d suck it up, out my big boy pants on, and figure out someway to turn it to my advantage. I wouldn’t keep whining on and on about how I’d been wronged by CB and and and and... I wouldn’t be able to use a toy exactly they way I wanted to. Next!
People are free to like the change all they want, as much as some players are getting nothing but screwed over, other players are benefiting from it. Making bad excuses to the players who are getting screwed over is what pisses them off though.
Guys feedback please no infighting. Edit to expand Please understand not all users see it the same way, lets focus on providing feedback.
@Triumph, do you know what really is a "GW Way"? Power creep. Manipulating unit power levels between editions and codexes, so what was great before becomes mediocre, and what just got new sculpts becomes so powerful you need to buy five boxes of it. Focusing on the most popular, most safe armies, while ignoring the niche ones. CB doesn't treat their playerbase like that (ok, they might do a bit of the last one, what with the SEF and MRRF). But to attack them and everyone who defends them in the way you're doing in this thread because some of their decision force you to change the way you play isn't justified anger, it's entitlement. If you will decide that your JSA models are now useless I'm pretty sure you will be able to sell them without much of a loss. New fluff and models will make the army attractive to a lot of players, and demand for the models will be high. Long story short - find a new way of playing that's fun for you, chill and stop attacking anyone who thinks otherwise. As for being "screwed over" - I'm also a SEF player. I have almost complete army, painted and seldom used, because in HSN3 enviroment it's outdated and unwieldy. Instead of spreading my discontent about this state of affairs I play my SAA or Aleph, and wait for SEF update. Occasionally taking them out for a spin, as handing your opponent a blank courtesy list is fun. But whether I play them or not it's my decision, not CB's.
Feedback? CB needs to improve on the way it communicates things. Bad news are not supposed to be released after a time of hype, they should be released with an appropiate amount of cooldown time, so people can make their preparations. In my opinion, of course. Personally, as soon as I saw the first "Enough" banner and a friend passed me the leaked pictures I went into full damage control and sold most of my small JSA collection.
StarCo has been around since the beginning - there's artwork of them in the original rulebook, they've been mentioned as an organization, and they've been hinted at, both in seminars and on boxes, for years. Hell, I know two people with StarCo patches. https://human-sphere.com/index.php?title=Non-Faction_Patches#Organisations Beyhan Resources will, most likely, be the Mercenary Company with Kaplan... whenever that comes out. Company, off the top of my head, is newer, yes, but they're mentioned in the RPG and... I think they're in one of the other N3 books (core or HS). They were definitely mentioned when NA2 dropped. These certainly aren't out of the blue. As for them being a bunch of random units... I've seen a number of people make this comment, and I'm not sure how to react... The N2 Mercenary rules were... not good, and WAAAY more random than this, and people were upset that they were removed. Now we have actual Mercenary Companies with, presumably, lore in the upcoming book... I think any sort of context missing now will be provided in that book. Also, StarCo: All Corregidor units were, are, and will be mercs. That's part of Corregidor's thing. The surprise there, to me, is the RiotGrrls... but, I'll let you tell them what to do. ;) Hardcases and Irmandinhos shouldn't be a surprise - they're ne'er-do-wells. I don't recall the Al'Hawwa lore right now. Ikari Co: It's named Ikari Company... my Japanese is rusty (non-existant), but I've got to imagine that's the main connection between that group and all the JSA troopers in it. Bashi and Desperadoes are wild and crazy dudes. Druze work for ca$h. Wu Ming... gotta be escaped prisoners or something. Ninjas don't exist. But if they did, there'd probably be a number of filthy ninjas being sneaking for money. I dunno... to me, they all fit.
Oh man... don't get me started on GW. HA! A word on SEF and MRRF - if they're not done, it's because CB isn't content with where they are and wants to dedicate more time to them. I know they're missed, but... I'm confident that when they're released, they'll have been worth it.
This thread rocks. Loving it. The anger is so metal. For the displeased minority... I suggest melting all your minis in protest, and then blobbing them into an interpretive sculpture that expresses the deep raw levels of your hate (careful, molten pewter is hot.) @Everyone else. I appreciate the rational responses. Nice to view the different perspectives of the community. As a Yu Jing player, I don't mind in the least that Japanese units are leaving. When I picked up Vanilla Yu Jing, I definitely didn't do it to play JSA units. Bostria wasn't kidding when he talked about the internet exploding at this release. I just had to explain to someone on Facebook why slurs against Japanese are hateful. Edited for moral decency.
Welp. I dunno about you guys, but I'm so HYPED for changes - I can hardly keep my shaking hands. Of course sudden ''JSA is leaving and losing some of it's units'' phenomenon is not that good, esp. for someone like me: hell, i've ordered 2 more Raiden HRL like 3 days ago, but let's face it - we've got: a) New proxy Rules, so: b) we could use that Raden's like Ryuken Unit's (We've got 1 HRL profile already, so maybe spitfire one. Maybe) c) We still don't know what that Tanko Unit is (maybe "New" Haramaki type unit.) Oh yeah, and we've got new profiles too... From a vanilla perspective, yes losing Oniwaban hurts, but let's face it - Vanilla could play without it + we would definitely get some new toys to play with. So my point is - Change is good! - Play and have fun! Sergio, peace out.
Would we, thought? Because so far we haven't heard anything about that. Giving CB the benefit of the doubt is one thing, but so far the only thing I've seen is a post by Bostria on the Spanish side saying that he wasn't affected by this change because he can see the future of YJ, but that the base of YJ players gets hit with the full grievance, but gets the "fun" of "role-playing" their anger through the year. So, much like the Tiger being part of Invincible Army, as much as I would like to be able to say Yes it is, I can't in good faith, with the data available to me in this moment, say that there is anything more than a possibility that we get any compensation, and that the possibility isn't at any point higher than 50%, if that much.
This change has come on the back of literally the biggest year with the most releases for Yu Jing ever. There have been MASSIVE amounts of gravy from CB for Yu Jing over the last 12 months. If people are going to get pissy about losing JSA now NO AMOUNT OF EXTRA STUFF is going to change that. Because they already got a mountain of extra stuff, and they are still moaning.
