Do you have a source for this? As I understand it, declaring "no ARO" is completely normal. There's no such thing as a "forgo ARO" declaration. If you choose not to ARO, then we may know right away that you've forgone your opportunity, or we may find out when we measure ZoC. Either way, you just declare that you're not AROing.
Angus never has more than 1x7mm at most, which is not enough for Angus to declare BS Attack using his own LOF. I don't think the game has ever worked like this...
Yes, but when does Angus' player find this out? That's the question. It's a fairly significant drawback for well... one unit's ability to make use of their equipment.
Etiquette, boys... If you DO NOT have ARO, you declare "no ARO" If you DO HAVE an ARO at your disposal, you are required to disclose it to your opponent.
That sounds like a house rule, and it makes Decoys and Holoechos fairly pointless and trying to hide what's a mine and what's not a meaningless exercise. Happen to have any page number or wiki link?
@Mahtamori it's the other way round. In the above example, Zhao HAS an ARO, so he is required to disclose it.
A. Zhao's facing is irrelevant. A. Again, Taowu's facing is irrelevant. If either Trooper could see, if they were facing in the right direction, there is LoF.
... I don't want to be rude, but I don't think you read my initial post which ijw confirmed. I will repost: Trooper B has LoF to trooper A if the following conditions are met: 1. A line can be drawn between the silhouettes of A and B using the following rules: a. The line doesn't pass through scenery or another unit's silhouette. b. The line is at least 3mm wide at at least one end.2. The line doesn't pass through a visibility zone that B cannot see through. 3. A is in B's front arc. The reciprocal LoF rule applies to condition 1.b. In other words, the line exists between A and B in both directions if it is at least 3mm wide at either end. You can't have a unidirectional line, even if it is less than 3mm wide at one end. The reciprocal LoF rule is not relevant to any of the other conditions. In your example, there is a line between Angus' Silhouette and Zhao's silhouette which is >3mm wide at Angus' end. The players know this immediately by checking the sightlines. So condition 1 is met. Condition 3 is also met - Zhao is in Angus' front arc. Therefore, unless there is smoke in the way, Angus has LoF to Zhao, from the outset. Both players know that, from the outset. It does not, at any point, matter what Zhao's facing is. Edit: Ninja'd by ijw, the greatest ninja of them all.
Bear with me. Taowu's and Zhao's real LOF are Private Information. When does the (in this case) Yu Jing player let their opponent know that there is LOF or that there is no LOF? Assuming of course that there is no possibility of LOF to Angus' initial position.
What's the relevance of this? Angus isn't facing away from them, which is the only way there won't be reciprocal LoF. So in both of your examples, LoF will be determined at step A.
Except there would be no reciprocal LOF to Taowu because Angus can't see Taowu and Taowu can't see Angus, Angus just thinks that Taowu can see him because of the obligatory automatic equipment. I do find it odd that neither of you could see the importance of knowing that a LOF that is Private Information need to be revealed before a skill declaration forces you to check -.-;; Given the FAQ, I would have assumed that those LOF are not revealed at all until either of them declared a BS Attack and the FAQ tells you to check the LOF...
No. The WHOLE POINT is that that interpretation of the reciprocal LoF rules is wrong. That is not what the word "see" means in the LoF rules. I don't know how to be any more clear.
OK, I'm starting to lose patience here. Angus HAS LoF. Angus will STILL have LoF even if the 'target' is facing the wrong way, so the LoF arc of Taowu being Private Information doesn't matter. Reciprocal LoF does not depend on facing.
So, in its essence, you're saying that "see" in regards to Line of Fire is omnidirectional and doesn't depend on the LOF angle that a unit has, when the rules state this: In Infinity, Troopers have a Line of Fire (LoF) angle of 180º, that is, they can see with the front half of their base, as shown on the base of the miniatures. That's the issue I'm having. The rules for LOF starts off saying that what a unit can "see" is determined by their front arc. And reading onwards in the same rules For a Trooper to be able to draw LoF to its target, it must meet these conditions: The target must be totally or partially within the Trooper's front 180º arc, unless some Special Skill or piece of Equipment ignores this restriction. So, we have that "see" is defined as the front arc, and to draw LOF the target must be in the front arc, and the FAQ states that "can draw LOF". Can you see (not a pun) where things are getting crossed? I just can't find where the first restriction on how to draw LOF is lifted to determine LOF. Edit: unless the LOF section is a complete mess and mixes up the definitions of LOF between anything and LOF as part of a skill requirement by putting two different concepts on the same page without separation and using the same terminology...
It's in the question: [Errata] Does 'reciprocal' Line of Fire (the first exception for drawing LoF) depend on the facing of the target, and does it require you to attack the target?
There's no longer anything to debate. ijw has ruled on it. Yes, the rule could have been better written, and the FAQ could have been better written. But now ijw was told us so there is no more uncertainty.
I think I get it. Active unit Angus doesn't have LoF on his own as he only sees a tiny pixel of Zhao back. But from the Zhao's siluette perspective you can see more than enough of Angus to draw a proper LoF. So you don't check real LoF considering facing, you check it as if it had 360 for that purpose.
Yeah, I get it, too, now, but it's confusing as hell because the FAQ is answering by omission and by using terminology that implies LOF arc is required. Generic LOFs (such as that between two mines) don't have that requirement, but they also don't (seem to) have the 3x3 requirement An errataed text in the book could read: As long as any Trooper A could draw LoF to another Trooper B without regard for their Line of Fire arc, Trooper B can draw LoF to Trooper A as well, as long as Trooper A is within Trooper B's Line of Fire arc.
