This. I don't need to target the enemy Trooper to affect him with Smoke, make him lose any potential LoF to me. I don't need LoF to him to do that. Why would I need LoF to him in Reactive all of a sudden.
Right I agree with this in general - the thing I'm struggling with is that this line of logic seems to have the side-effect of disallowing an active-turn smoke grenade attack as well if you don't have LoF to anyone... even if you don't intend for a figure to be your target(?). If I throw smoke at my feet in the active turn, I'm not identifying an enemy target for the BS Attack (and I may not be able to if I'm completely outside of LoF of anyone). I feel like what we need is an explicit errata that's pretty much the exact same as the Place Deployable requirement to be added to BS Attacks - or something along these line. ► In the Reactive Turn, LoF to the Active Trooper is required. (except for weapons or equipment with the trait NO LOF, ZONE OF CONTROL)
Then it's a problem with ARO rules, because you should be able to ARO with Smoke. Your Trooper knows he's being fired at, he can dodge, he can't fire a rifle back without LoF, but why would you design the ARO rules so that he couldn't save himself with a Smoke without looking the shooter in the eye?
Okay - I am really really sorry to keep harping on this - but that's what I don't understand. Which ARO rule actually prevents this? Is it: AROs must choose one of the Troopers activated by the Order as their target. Then why am I allowed to throw smoke at my feet when I ARO to an enemy trooper is in my LoF? They are not my target(?) Enemies entering or acting inside the Zone of Control of a Trooper while remaining outside that Trooper’s LoF can be reacted to, but only by using the Common Skills Dodge or Reset, unless the Trooper has a Special Skill, weapon, or piece of Equipment that can be used without LoF. Isn't smoke grenade a weapon that can be used without LoF (de facto as a result of how Targetless works)? Or is it something else?
Take a moment there... ARO means you need to _react to the order being spent_. In active turn you chose the target, and targetless means the target can be the ground (or differently, the ground IS a valid target). However, during an ARO the ONLY valid target is the enemy being activated. Which you need to see in order to declare BS Attack. Even if then the "point of contact" of said BS Attack is not the actual enemy. TBH I know this sounds like BS (pun intended). But it is my way of making rational sense of it.
Why? Rules-wise it doesn’t work, and balance-wise it would be horrific. It’s this, as mentioned up-thread. Smoke Grenades are BS Weapons so require LoF unless otherwise specified. Targetless just allows you to pick a target spot other than the Active Trooper. They’d need the No LoF Trait to be used for ZoC AROs.
Because the rules shouldn't break the suspension of disbelief? As rules are, no. That's my point. Not sure why, you can already drop Smoke in ARO if you have LoF, right? What's the huge difference with the edge case of being shot at from outside of Front Arc, when you can still Dodge that fire? Isn't using Smoke vs Shoot why the Trooper has the Smoke in the first place? Drop the Smoke at a negative modifier, by all means, but still allow it to be dropped.
What shooting are you talking about? If Smoke can be used as a ZoC ARO, it’s going to get thrown in previous Orders, during the Active Trooper’s approach. That’s not an edge case.
Smoke sort of works the same way as mines. Both can be used without any anemy in active turn, but in reactive you need LoF for both of them. If you want to argue about smoke being ZoC ARO, then by that logic place deployable should also be a valid ZoC ARO, and we all know it isn't and it would be horrendous for balance. And before somebody says that Smoke has trait that allows it: Targetless doesn't say anything about not requiring LoF, all it does is allowing you to target something that isn't enemy model. And during ARO you are reacting to said enemy with a BS weapon, they "tend" to require LoF right?
You know, smoke being able to face to face a gun salvo already breaks suspension of disbelief, so I think most people's disbelief won't be harmed by this. We're talking about something that takes 3-4 seconds to detonate providing enough distraction that a trooper will miss their shots in a split-second exchange...
Not the point and "ninja smoke trick" is a well known trope. But that's really beside the point. The break in my suspension of disbelief happens when my Trooper can Dodge or Smodge if he's shot at from the Front Arc, and still can Dodge (but not Smodge!) when shot from the Rear Arc. Why? There's no discernible reason beside "this is the result returned by the rules formula, sorry". And that's where it falls apart, the rules do not seem to reflect the world well enough.
Leave dodge out of it. This has never been a dodge except for in N3-name only. This is a BS Attack. Your unit can use the smoke grenade rail attachment on the rifle to avoid attacks in the front arc, your unit can use a rifle itself in the front arc to avoid attacks in the front arc. Your unit can not use smoke grenade rail attachment on the rifle to avoid attacks in the rear arc, your unit can not use a rifle itself in the rear arc to avoid attacks in the front arc. Symmetrical and nice.
You don't seem to get it and it's not about "Smodge" being a "dodge", I know what it is. I'm talking about in-universe, in-character reactions and you're talking dry rules at me. I'm saying rules don't match what and why seems to be possible for the Trooper and you're telling me "but those are the rules". If a Trooper can react to incoming fire from a source he sees by Dodging and by dropping Smoke to break LoF, then when he's attacked from the rear, he either should not be able to Dodge or Smoke, or he should be able to do both. There's no sensible in-universe reason for him to suddenly stutter and forget his "drop Smoke at my feet" ninja trick but still be able to Dodge just fine.
I'm not talking dry rules. Being able to react to something that you don't see is in the rules a pure primal reaction of fear to danger - this is also the reason why you get a penalty when you try to do it like that. Any unit that has the presence of mind to remember their smoke tricks or the fact that you can hit the deck and shoot at the same time has Sixth Sense or 360 visor, and those units will be able to drop a totally safe military grade over-charged white phosphorous grenade with copper in it for colour at their own feet (guaranteed to not give you lung cancer). You know that the unit is being attacked by an attack that requires LOF, but your unit is not able to identify this as all they heard was the safety going *click* and the enemy holding their breath, and possibly their handler shouting "GET DOWN!" into their ear piece.
Not so sure showing up to a rule discussion and hinging your argument on "the suspension of disbelief" is even worth the mockery.
It's called sarcasm. Useful life hack, should try learning it! Always comes in useful and makes me jolly all the time in these trying times.
I mean, I still agree that Smoke Grenades shouldn't be a ZoC ARO, but I always assumed they were like high-tech versions of anime ninja smokebombs, not like real-life smoke grenades which are used for signalling etc.
