Monofilament ammo imposes the state Dead, but it doesn't say that it does not inflict wounds. Does a trooper like an Umbra Samaritan that has Protheion and monofilament on its melee weapons still gain a wound per failed save in melee?
Also worth noting that Coup De Grace works in the same way as monofilament so doesn't provide a wound either.
It doesn't work the same way as Monofilament. Monofilament requires an armor roll; Coup de Grace does not. However, it's still silly that Coup De Grace does not work with Protheion.
I meant that they both cause a model to enter the Dead state without technically inflicting a wound. Which I think was pretty clear?
This has been brought up a few times and there's a reason why I haven't added it to the tracking thread; IJW has already weighed in on the topic and the conclusion he came to was that Protheion doesn't (currently) work with automatic kill effects like Monofilament or Coup de Grace. From memory this is in the FAQ queue (will be interesting to see if they buff it to match the examples or confirm that it is the examples are borked), but you can probably find that out by doing a forum search for IJW's replies - it's in the Combined Forums if memory serves.
The game system no longer hard-specifies that you lose a wound/structure when you fail a damage roll, instead it states that you "generally" lose one. If a weapon has a state, you'll generally enter that state instead. As a minor aside, how could a weapon with the specific effect of being lethal also be non-lethal?
Monofilament is normal ammo plus state: dead. I think @Hecaton is correct that it’s missing a statement that it doesn’t inflict a wound. I offer no comment on how this would interact with protheion, because I honestly have no idea.
If it's Normal Ammo then it should inflict a Wound as well as imposing states, see EM Ammo as a similar - if slightly different - example.
I know the examples are dubious, but there is an example I do not recognise from N3 which states that the victim of a monofilament CCW causes the target to go to dead instead of suffering a wound. I would say that this is another case where the rules have left stuff out, either through excessive cutting or due to mistaking that it's written elsewhere, which is one of the several risks of a rule set that tries not to repeat itself, but I think we can still see how it was written to work. https://infinitythewiki.com/Melee_Weapon_Profile Traits Example In the case of the Monofilament CC Weapon, its Traits indicate that the target will have their ARM value reduced to 0 for their Saving Roll and that, in the case of suffering Damage, instead of losing one point of Wound or Structure Attribute, they will enter Dead state directly.
The question is about timing and precedence. If you both lose a wound and directly enter the dead state, does the wound actually have an opportunity to register?
Mahtamori’s point is that the “Traits Example” text says that Monofilament doesn’t inflict a wound, and the Dead state is caused instead. It’s likely it would be less confusing if there was an additional thing on Monofilament’s stat line, but the explanation is pretty explicit.
Ackshually, you didn’t. != Anyway, the effect of monofilament is to impose the dead state, not to inflict wounds sufficient to cause the target to enter the dead state.
Monofilament weapons have Normal ammo; the effect of Normal ammo is to inflict a wound. They also have state: dead, the effect of which is to inflict the dead state. There is no explicit rule that says how to apply these together; if they both happen or if dead overrides the wound process. This was alluded to in the original post but not clearly stated.
Like I wrote, it says it doesn't cause wounds in the Traits example, which I also think is new to N4 and not ported from N3 or CodeOne like some of the less accurate examples in the initial release
