comparing n3 v1 achillies to n4 v1 (ignoring v2, as that is an entire can of worms with its gear, FTO and noticeable discount) he is a straight downgrade for 2pt (for Multirifle) or .5 swc (for spitfire) less as n4 MA 2 units are now essentially n3 MA3 and he other (n4) lvl 3-4 users feel like their "skill tax" have little outcome in MA fights. old MA chart new MA chart
It's really not a downgrade and it's really not old MA3. It's old MA3 AND MA2 rolled into one. Factor in when and how you used MA3 vs MA4, and you're looking at fairly small deficits against troopers with an effective CC of 19 or lower while his melee performance is increased versus most MA users. While it is true that most melee units were corrected upwards because they were not performing well for their points, the highest echelons remain the highest echelons and particularly in the highest echelon troopers didn't get melee upgrades. Last but not least you need to consider why Achilles v1 didn't get less expensive; he's no longer Frenzy. For a unit that spends most of their time not in a Fireteam this actually matters, particularly now that Frenzy kicks in a whole turn earlier (which is still not on parity with how huge a discount those units get, but still...) Nourikas is a gods damned mystery how that profile can be so bloody cheap, and nothing should suffer being compared to a profile like that...
I think that most of the users here have posted an answer reading only the title of the post, and not the main post. I don't think that Achilles isn't good, he is really good; but nothing of really exceptional. It should be very exceptional for what it represents in the background. It is possible that the hero and leader for excellence of the human sphere in all this time has not received cutting-edge equipment and upgrades containing special abilities; when instead soldiers and normal warriors have received them? Personally I would prefer, as I wrote previously, to have a more expensive piece, even at the price of a tag of 100pt, but that reflects the legend it is; instead of having a good but cheap piece. In short, I was expecting a complete change like the one that Patroclus received instead; or at least a more important upgrade like the one that Ajax received instead.
Sorry, but you are reading the kool-aid fluff. Go read the other factions´ fluff in the book and everybody in this game should be 100pts monsters. ALEPH lies, and Achiles is but a simple up-built L-Host sent to the frontlines for propaganda and as a TV star.
Is Achilles worth the points? Eh, I can't judge that. All I can say is that he's a bloody monster that's almost impossible to brute force and with a statline that's hit the soft-cap* in all stats and with Mimetism -6 on top, and is one of very few units I hope to not see/suspect across the table, similar to an Avatar. Oh, and I skipped the title and jumped straight to the bullet points that were so outlandish that I felt compelled to post in a faction forum I don't play, which I try to avoid doing. * can't find any other non-TAG unit that has Guilang and Hulang are the only one I can think of that are described in less kind terms. Guilang are, of course, great.
This is the important point that it's easy to miss. There are better shooters (when factoring in Fireteams), there are better CC units, there are faster units, and there are tougher units. But, no other unit combines lethality (ranged and CC), speed, and toughness in such a way that it makes him incredibly difficult to deal with. I'm not sure that he needs to be the most lethal, fastest, and toughest unit in the game in order to be uniquely effective / or for fluff reasons, in a game of aliens and robots not bounded by human anthropometric limitations.
I think the issue for him is that other things got better. cheaper, or more common. There are more things that can wreck him in CC and hackers are far more prevalent (at least in the games I’ve played). I think It would be nice if he got a better gun in N4 (someone in another thread suggested a multi-spitfire), but he’s still really good and better for his points in N4.
I hate every unit is cc23 plus nowadays. Why nourkias is better or same skill level of legendary shinobi or achiles. And casanova and sarkosh and blah Blah. Achiles in this New meta need something New. A New skill maybe special to him. Something that buffs myrmidons? To increase their movement or what ever.
Why is the exemplar of the most feared and deadly race of aliens ever known in the galaxy a match in CC for Achilles? Is that a trick question? Or the hero of a genegineered subrace of tunnel warriors and CQB fighters? Or a super thief, turned super spy, turned Aristeia! duelist, turned SwordFor Operative in a recreation grade lhost (who might be a recreation himself)? Achilles is an AI created intellect in a super advanced body draped in the trappings of myth, he's damn good, but he's going to have peers in other factions, admittedly peers that don't also have BS15 and 3W.
Ok. As you notify too, Achiles is a standart but strong unit in N4 and ofcourse no match for mighty Nourkias. However some of us Who have different opinions thought about him a bit differently and were thinking a demigod must have something special. Maybe better idea is changing the name like 'Legendary Hoplite' instead of achiles.
Hardly any unit entirely lives up to their fluff. If they *did*, it would the mother of all dumpster fires. As it stands, Achilles provides a nearly unmatched combination of attributes and abilities arguably worthy of the name. Better/equal CC troops? Yes. Better/equal BS troops? Yes. Better combo of CC/BS? Most would argue “no”.
He'll beat the pants off Nourkias, it's BS15+Mimetism vs BS12 with no mods. But you seem to be missing the conceit of the Steel Phalanx in Infinity's background, they're Aleph's toy soldiers dressed in the costume of the Iliad by their PR department. Achilles is not actually the reborn character of old, no more than Sun Tzu is actually an ancient Chinese general or Avicenna is an actual medieval Arabian scientist. Achilles is the most advanced, most skilled, most durable soldier Aleph can produce play-acting the role of Achilles to enhance his legitimacy and acceptance within the Human Sphere. Plus, BS15, 3W, CC24, Mimetism and MA4, all in an S2 package is pretty damn special.
One of the best things about being a Vanilla Haqqislam player is that IMO it gives you a good perspective on the power of High BS plus negative modifiers. Achilles will get the job done.
Sir, you can't just silence everybody with "You're not listening!". I have read your whole writing, and the answer is still the same.
Well. i just wanted to say that i agree with the topic owner. thats an issue. maybe CB writes most of the fluffs overpowerful so that we feel this way.
I still think this doesn't make sense. He have the same equipment of a normal myrmidon. If I have the best technology in the world (ALEPH) and the best soldier on the planet, I don't send him to the war of humanity equipped with a sling, but I would give him the best that mankind can offer.
This is also a miniature game that needs balance and not just "huh lol Achilles is the best and nothing can beat him". If you wanna write fan fiction you can find FanFic in the Fan Zone section. Knock yourself out.
Also, remember that all of the fluff is written from an in universe point of view, often as government press releases or propaganda. You’d be hard pressed to find a single bit written by a neutral, dispassionate observer.
