1. Are Speculative Fire and Intuitive Attacks BS Attacks for the purposes of getting BS Attack (+1 Burst / +1 DAM) MODs? Intuitive Attack says "The user may perform a single BS Attack Roll against the target." Opinion: a BS Attack roll is not a BS Attack, so no. Speculative Attack says "The user may make a single BS Attack against a target outside their LoF." Opinion: it allows the use to perform a BS Attack, so yes. Neither have the BS Attack label. 2. Is Triangulated Fire a BS Attack for the purposes of getting BS Attack MODs? It has the BS Attack label. Opinion: a skill with the BS Attack label is a type of BS Attack so yes. 3. Is Triangulated Fire a BS Attack for the purposes of Coordinated Fire? Again, it has the BS Attack label. Opinion: while a skill with the BS Attack label is the same type of skill as BS Attack its not the same actual skill, so no.
1. https://infinitythewiki.com/Skills_and_Equipment_in_Infinity As per the above rules, the bonus from e.g. BS Attack (+1 DAM) applies "only when using that Special Skill, Weapon or Equipment". That is to say, I hold that the rules are pretty explicit about calling out the name of the skill very specifically and that precludes skills that just use the same rules. Edit: The trait "BS Attack" does call skills with that trait to be a form of BS Attack which I take to mean a form of the skill with the same name, but neither of these two skills have this trait. Intuitive Attack: No, it is not the BS Attack skill, nor a form of said skill Speculative Fire: No, it is not the BS Attack skill, nor a form of said skill Additionally, there are basically no MODs that Intuitive Attack could possibly get. It's Burst 1 regardless of MODs and it is straight WIP since "MODs [..] do not apply to this roll. 2. Yes. The trait BS Attack says "The use of this Special Skill or piece of Equipment is a form of BS Attack", so this is a form of the BS Attack skill 3. Yes. As per 2.
@Mahtamori agree with your logic disagree with a conclusion. I agree that Speculative Attack is not a form of BS Attack, rather it is an Attack that allows you to perform a BS Attack weirdly. You are still performing a BS Attack and the BS Attack you perform should benefit from the associated mods.
The real questions here are: Does a Squalo’s grenade launcher damage go down by 1 when it performs a speculative shot? Does an Avatar’s sepsitor damage go down by one when it performs an intuitive attack? From a pure playability standpoint, I want the answer to both of those questions to be “no”.
Ugh, wasn't one of the goals of N4 to clean up the difference between a BS Attack, an attack with the BS Attack label, and an attack with a BS Weapon?
Also: If I have 2 FOs in a Fireteam can one ARO with Forward Observer and the other ARO with BS Attack (Flash Pulse) without breaking Fireteam Integrity? Both Forward Observer and BS Attack are forms of BS Attack and Forward Observer has the BS Attack trait. Opinion: yes, if I can coordinate the skills together then I can ARO with them together in a Fireteam.
They will never do so as long as they persist in calling ranged attacks "BS Attack" and have a skill called "BS Attack" at the same time. If they called ranged attacks "ranged attack" they could give e.g. TAGs "Ranged Attack (+1 DAM)" which would have no conflicting terminology* and would allow them to give a unit "BS Attack (+3)" without affecting e.g. Forward Observer * there is a category called "Ranged Weapon Profiles" which they immediately change terminology of to "BS Weapon profiles" in the first paragraph of that section
I would say that any ranged attack made with range weapons (so certain CoC melee attacks are not BS attacks) are BS attacks but in those cases you spot (intuitive and speculative), the rule says "make a single BS attack roll". I think this is a problem from the translation, and the idea behind it is to make only 1 roll, ignoring any bonus or burst the weapon has.
@Mahtamori I don't think this has reached a definitive conclusion, can you add it to the list please.
Popping in to add a comment I would have stuck in another thread: Speculative Attack is pretty obviously... an Entire Order Skill (Active turn only, uses a whole Regular or Irregular Order by itself) with the Attack label (meaning it can't target neutrals or allies) that causes the declaring model to execute a BS Attack Common Skill as one of its effects (very first bullet of the Speculative Attack effects). Rulebook PDF: Page 89 "This Common Skill allows the user to perform a BS Attack against a target outside LoF. Check the complete rules in the Infinity N4 Combat Module, p. 51." Page 51 "This Common Skill allows the user to execute a BS Attack against a target outside LoF or, if he has a suitable weapon, to choose a location other than the target as the center of the attack." Then the first Effect bullet of the rule reads "The user may make a single BS Attack against a target outside their LoF." Wiki: The very first Effect for Speculative Attack says: The user may make a single BS Attack against a target outside their LoF. Note the link in the Wiki for the phrase "BS Attack" in that sentence goes to the BS Attack Common Skill page. Also, Berserk causes a model to Move + CC Attack. The idea that an Entire Order Skill might encapsulate specific Skill declarations isn't that weird. Or rather it is, but it's comprehensibly weird, and not in any way unique to Speculative Attack.
I understand the desire to perform very deep technical readings, but at the moment I'm not very interested in differentiating between skills that are BS Attacks and skills that allow you to perform BS Attacks. Edit for clarity: It probably matters for coordinated orders and fireteam unity, but for all other purposes, all you care about is that you were hit by a BS Attack. It doesn't matter where in the opponent's skill execution tree it was generated; a BS Attack is still a BS Attack.
I added an edit for clarity above, but sure, why ever not? You got hit by a BS Attack, so you're entitled to shoot back. It'll be a FtF of your BS vs. their WIP.
So, what about Discover? Both Intuitive Attack and Discover tell you to perform a BS Attack Roll. Edit: the language is slightly different, I misremembered. My bad. My point was more that you and @Mahtamori disagree on that point. Mahtamori states than an Intuitive Attack is not a BS Attack. The consequences of that position is that it wouldn't allow BS Attack back through a ZVZ. So whether you intend it or not, you are taking a position on deep technical readings of how to distinguish between skills that are BS Attacks, skills that allow you to perform BS Attacks and skills that merely allow you to perform BS Attack Rolls.
The only references I can find to BS Attack on Discover are that it has range bands and applies modifiers.
