I'm probably overthinking this, but you can be 100% sure how infinity rules work... SITUATION: Friendly Trooper "A" has a direct template weapon. Friendly trooper "B" is nearby. Enemy trooper "C" is nearby. CASE1: Enemy trooper "C" activates and uses the 1st part of the order to move into b2b contact with Trooper "A". Trooper "A" declares BS ATTACK ARO and places template so that it hits Trooper "C" while he is moving, but not when he is b2b contact with Trooper "A". Is the attack cancelled? CASE2: Enemy trooper "C" activates and uses the 1st part of the order to move into b2b contact with Trooper "A". Trooper "A" declares BS ATTACK ARO and places template so that it hits Trooper "C" while he is in b2b contact with Trooper "A". Is the attack cancelled? CASE3: Enemy trooper "C" activates and uses the 1st part of the order to move. Trooper "A" declares BS ATTACK ARO and places template so that it hits Trooper "C" he is moving. Enemy trooper "C" uses the 2nd part of the order to move into b2b contact with Trooper "A". The template doesn't hit the trooper "C" while he is b2b contact with trooper "A". Is the attack cancelled? CASE4: Enemy trooper "C" activates and uses the 1st part of the order to move. Trooper "A" declares BS ATTACK ARO and places template so that it hits Trooper "C" he is moving. Enemy trooper "C" uses the 2nd part of the order to move into b2b contact with Trooper "A". The template hits the trooper "C" while he is b2b contact with trooper "A". Is the attack cancelled? CASE5: Same as CASE1, but Trooper "C" moves b2b contact with trooper "B" instead of trooper "A". CASE6: Same as CASE2, but Trooper "C" moves b2b contact with trooper "B" instead of trooper "A". CASE7: Same as CASE3, but Trooper "C" moves b2b contact with trooper "B" instead of trooper "A". CASE8: Same as CASE4, but Trooper "C" moves b2b contact with trooper "B" instead of trooper "A". EDIT - Fixed case 2
Case 1: no 2: yes 3-4: no. 5: yes. 6-7: no. 8: yes. I think. Basically, Troopers are immune to their own DTWs. "Despite being in contact with the Template, Troopers declaring an Attack with a Direct Template will not be affected by it, unless otherwise specified in the Weapon's, Skill's or Type of Ammunition's description" Third parties will have their DTW cancelled if it hits a trooper in a position where it is in an Engaged state. The Engaged State is a spatially defined state, so it is true for some (usually 1) position but not other positions. This is why is seems to contradict "all at one time": the active Trooper(s) occupies all positions through the order, but not all positions are equivalent (some have Cover, some do not, some are in a ZVZ some are not, some proc the Engaged State some do not).
There was a typo in case 2. It's now fixed. In cases 1-4 trooper C moves into b2b contact with shooter. In cases 5-8 trooper C moves into b2b contact with another friendly (from the point of view of the shooter) trooper.
Martial arts imposes mods even if enemy attack is made outside of b2b contact. So close combat is happening at the same time as other orders.
It's resolved at the same time. That doesn't mean that the Trooper counts as being in Silhouette contact for the entire Order, or it wouldn't be allowed to declare Move, BS Attack etc. In particular, Martial Arts specifically calls out 'must reach or be in Silhouette contact' in it's Requirements. inane.imp appears to have answered everything.
@ijw https://infinitythewiki.com/Engaged_State "Template Weapons placed on a group of Troopers in Engaged state will always affect all participating Troopers, even if the placement of the Template would only affect one of them." So when does engage-state trigger in regards to template weapons? After an order?
I'm not sure why you're ignoring inane.imp's previous answer, but regarding that particular text, if the template affects the moving Trooper when it's outside Silhouette contact, the template has not been 'placed on a group of Troopers in Engaged State'. EDIT - as inane.imp said, it's not 'when' but 'where'.
An argument can be made that trooper only gains "engaged" state after an order. So attack wouldn't be cancelled in cases 1-8. You can only cancel attacks if the trooper is "engaged" at the beginning of the order.
OK, I'm not really sure what your aim is here. Are you making that argument? If so, what rules text are you basing it on?
The rules aren't 100% clear when "engaged" state is triggered during the order expenditure sequence. I'm simply trying to play direct and non-direct templates correctly. If I could make a ruling about this, the engaged state would be triggered during 6.2, same time as Guts Rolls.
Does Engaged states that it is applied during the full duration of the order? Does Engaged states that it is applied at the resolution step? When are you trying to apply it, if not WHEN AND WHILE in silhouette contact (with the stated exceptions)?
@ijw inane.imp already recinded his answers, because I had an error in case 2 (which I have now corrected). Also, I'm pretty sure that you are against attack cancellation in case 8. But just to be clear, inane.ipms answers in post#2 are RAI?
I didn't rescind my answers I went: 'well fuck, you changed the questions I can't be arsed going back and fixing that'. But that's irrelevant because I also provided the logic that answers all the questions. What answers do you get when you apply the logic I described?
I think cases 4 and 8 (which are functionally the same) are the question? I activate my dude A and Move. Your dude B AROs with a DTW and places the template so that it hits A and nobody else. The template happens to come close to your other dude C, but of course you place it so that it doesn't touch C. Now for my second short skill, I Move A again. I Move so that I stay inside the template which is currently on the table. I Move to a point where I'm still inside the template but also in silhouette contact with C. In other words, the template still doesn't touch C, but it now touches A at the point where A is in silhouette contact with C. inane-imp answered that the template would not be cancelled in this case, but I think maybe he read the scenario differently than I did? In this scenario I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that the template would be cancelled since, at Resolution, it hits a unit that is in silhouette contact with a friendly unit.
(My A, B, and C may be different than the OP's, I couldn't be bothered to figure out which one was which originally)
Also fuck, I tried to revisit my answers but goddamn trying to parse those questions on my phone is a PITA.
