Mirrorball @ "Eclipse" ammo type

I don't have a definite answer, but here's the rules for comparison.

https://infinitythewiki.com/Weapon_Chart

My guess would be that you can do mostly the same stuff as with Smoke Grenades (you can ARO with it, it's Targetless, it's an Impact Template (Circular), so you could "Mirror not-Dodge" (by just challenging the enemy LOS with an Eclipse template.

 

Yes, it can do a special dodge.
The only differences between it and an Eclipse Grenade is that A: you use WIP, and B: you place it in ZoC, without requiring LoF, but also without range bands and shorter max range.

“Special Dodge” is no longer an attribute; those rules are now just baked into Smoke/Eclipse Ammo.

The real juicy use-case, though, is dropping an Eclipse zone on some poor sap around a corner before running up and shanking him. No Speculative Attack required, so just straight WIP, and it’s only a short skill instead of an Entire Order.

 

Guts only applies with damage rolls lol. They get to ARO since they’re in the AoE of a template weapon, though without LoF to the active model they’ll be dodging on -3 (and it’s a straight roll for both of you because targetless), but if you drop it directly on them they probably won’t be able to dodge out, if they even make the roll (most TAGs will be on 8’s).

No premeasuring the distance AFAIK (same rules as using White Noise).

 

You can still dodge if the smoke touches you, it is even called out specifically as not being a FTF.

Since the smoke rules no longer has the "not an attack" line and is consistently referring to smoke weapons as performing attacks, I would say that it now also triggers guts rolls as guts has nothing dealing with non-offensive weapons, only successful attacks.

 

So a successful Dodge, then Guts Movement would take you out of the AoE: ie, your Guts movement would stop as soon as you're outside of the Eclipse template.

Notably this wouldn't be far enough to stop a trooper that was still inside the Eclipse reaching B2B.

 

A successful Dodge would make the trooper evade the enemy attack, meaning they won't be affected by the Eclipse attack so they would not be allowed a Guts Roll. It's possible to Dodge or Guts far enough if the Eclipse is just touching the trooper, as in my experience is often the case - particularly now that it seems you need to pick the target spot before you set the template down.

I'm wondering if Mirrorball behaves like White Noise or like a grenade, seems to be the latter. White Noise needs to be entirely inside the Hacking Area...

 

Not if you don't clear the template, it's not FTF so you're still affected by the Smoke Template if you're touching the Smoke Template.

It's like declaring Dodge vs a Hack. You can Dodge and then Guts to clear the Hacking Area.

And yeah, my point was more with the Guts Movement how do you move?

Full distance to avoid the AOE and then some.
Just enough to avoid the AOE.
Full distance to clear the Attacker's LOF.
Just enough to clear the Attacker's LOF.

I think a Smoke Template is not a LOF based attack vs the affected Trooper (because the LOF between the attacker and affected Trooper is not relevant to the attack, so should not be relevant to the Guts Movement) but that's a very loose interpretation.

 

White Noise is also placed entirely during Resolution, it's not a Template Weapon and shares none of the rules.

 

It's part of the Dodge rule that you evade the attack if the Dodge roll is successful. Since you evaded the attack you are not affected by the attack regardless of if you're still in the ZVZ. Remember that the template's roll and the Dodge roll happens at the same time and that the effects of the template and the effects of the Dodge is simultaneous.
Similarly, Dodging into a Zero Visibility Zone will not grant you a Guts Roll because the zone itself is not an attack, regardless if the zone is due to environment or due to a smoke grenade. It is the act of being attacked that causes the Guts Roll and Dodge evades the attack.

 

Ah, you're making a distinction between being affected by the attack and being affected by the ZVZ.

Conceivably CB could implement a weapon that both does damage and creates a ZVZ: a successful Dodge would avoid the damage irrespective of whether it leaves the ZVZ.

Yeah, that makes sense.

The second question stands though, but that's more of a general Guts Movement question: how far are you allowed to move as part of a Guts? Only as far as necessary, always as far as possible or up to the maximum distance?

 

I can't find anything that limits you to any distance less than 2", they've removed several restrictions from N3 and I can't remember that barely enough to leave the zone was ever a restriction. As judge in a tournament I would rule it that as long as the final position is outside the aoe, it doesn't matter if the trooper was cheeky and used the full 2" allowed to move to an even better position.

 

Yeah, if you were only allowed to Guts 1mm if that was all you needed to get better cover, then the attacker could just shift 1mm over and keep shooting at you, which would make Guts kind of pointless. I think I've only seen it played that you can move the full 2", basically getting as far into cover as possible so that the attacker can't hunt you down.

 

So interestingly - if you’re correct - it appears that attacks that affect allies would also trigger Guts.

OTOH, there’s an argument that Troopers don’t “suffer a successful attack” from Smoke / Eclipse because those ammo types don’t have a “damage attribute value and [do] not inflict states”.

That is, they are affected by the Template Weapon but they do not suffer from the attack. This is why Smoke templates can affect allies: they don’t impose suffering on troops affected by the template.

Edit: I think this deserves a thread of its own. https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/does-smoke-cause-guts.38572/