Dodging to engage a model entering Camo/Marker state (all at once question)

I'd apply the timing for Active Dodge vs Reactive Dodge and have the Zero enter the Camo state first.

But that's a "TO" style ruling to resolve the problem and continue playing. I don't think the rules actually deal with it.

 

The list of effects to resolve is also written in a particular order that doesn't seem to have any correlation to typical sorting orders other than which order they ought to be resolved in and Dodge is second to last.

6.1. Effects: Players apply all effects of successful Skills, Special Skills, and pieces of Equipment, and make Saving Rolls, any Dodge movement or Alert.​

 

B2b always drops camo. Recamo is entire order that cant be done in zoc. Maybe one of these statements has changed but wasnt this how it got handeled in n3? The reactive dodge defnitly gets you into b2b as it has no exceptions in regards to generating b2b. Which should in and of itself result in the zero losing the camo state (even if its possible to recamo in zoc).

 

It can be done inside ZOC:

"During the Active Turn, Troopers may only return to Camouflaged State by consuming 1 Entire Order, outside the LoF of enemy Markers or Troopers."

 

“B2b always drops camo” is wrong, because it’s leaving out who’s doing the moving.
1. You’re not allowed to move into base contact with a camo marker.
2. If the camo marker moves into base contact with you (not the other way around) then it cancels camo.

Whenever it came up in N3, unless the enemy camo marker declared it was getting into contact with you, you stop your move short.

 

Camouflage is only denied by ZoC when the enemy troop has Sensor.

 

Isnt that a misconception? What you refer to was meant to allow hidden troopers to denie enemys access to rooms. You still werent allowed to reactively get into b2b by just revealing in the movement path. To get into b2b you always had to be engage rolling while reactive. Which is a roll. Which results in you dropping out of camo in the path of an active trooper. Which results in b2b with a nonrelevant roll but always requiring that roll still. You never good move past an enemy camo marker that was already on the table so that sentence never mattered for bisible on tabel units.

Still. Isn't it the intention of the rules surrounding camo that b2b results in you revealing. Always? Cant see a point that would indicate otherwise.

 

Camo cancelation rules:
"The Camouflaged Marker enters Silhouette contact with an enemy Model."

I am aware that in english this might mean "enter=getting into" but it can also be read as "b2b is generated" or "enters engaged state".

Which would mean its of no concern who forced the engaged state. This is the main reason why i think the intention is"b2b state always stops camo state"

 

@Rot_Sechs the issue isn't what happens when you enter base contact, the issue is whether you're allowed to enter base contact with the trooper camouflaging as per the effect:

You cannot enter Silhouette contact with an Enemy Camouflaged Marker.
​

 

The zero isnt in camo when dodge is declared. So the requirement for dodge stays true. Which means you defnitly end in b2b. The zero may or may not get into camo but he drops out after dodged unit gets placed no matter what happend before.

 

The question isn't about when Dodge is declared but when it is performed.

Simply because the Dodge is legal doesn't mean that it's legal move into S2S with the Zero.

 

Except recamoing occurs at the same time as the dodge move does due to recamo isn't a move skill, as far as I can tell? So neither dodge nor the recamo have priority.

 

If that's the case we have a situation similar to N3's IMM-Camo; since both happen at the same time in that case the Camo won't go away because Camo goes away on entering base contact.

 

From what I can tell, you are correct. The two will end up in the engaged state but it didn't "enter" engaged state while it was in camo, so a weird event occurs were the reactive trooper is in melee with a camo marker, and cannot cc him till someone else discovers the camo marker. And the camo marker can't move or leave without revealing itself and be cc attacked.

Bizarre but I think u are right in that it is how that would resolve atm (but probably should be faq'd to something else as that result is bizarre).

 

I'm pretty sure that he will be camo and the melee guy will be shit outta luck. That's the modus operandi of the ruleset is it not?

 

I would imagine that the active players resolution occurs first putting the model in a marker state. Then the reactive player can take their dodge movement. Since the model is now a marker the reactive model cannot enter base to base contact.

The basis for this is that if both players dodge, the active player makes their dodge movement first, then the reactive player makes their dodge movement.

 

They've shifted the game ever closer to make melee more worthwhile with each edition. It's entirely possible an FAQ on this will go the other way, especially considering how... fragile... they seem to want Re-camo to be.

Would be even more funny if the other trooper was an Impersonator/Cybermask

 

By bizarre you mean "essentially unplayable"?

 

One or the other needs to be given priority, but we require a ruling from CB to know which one it is.