One of the great mysteries with N4, along with the Blackjack, is Qiang Gao. How did he manage to go up in cost when everything else was going down? Is he even supposed to cost as much as he does? Did CB shit the bed with him like the Celestial Guard costs and forget to update him to N4 costs? I think it's worth looking at. At the very least I want to know how both he and Shang Ji-sus come out to 49 points each when TacAw is 5pts vs 4 for LT2. Worst case scenario is he's costed correctly and we identify equipment articles that are potentially over costed in N4 like N3 automedkits which is good information to have. Looking at the Yaogats his BS damage upgrade should cost 1pt. LT2 is 4pts, the HMG is a +8 upgrade over a combi/BSG. I think we should probably try to figure out how much a Nanopulser costs as well as Veteran. The more individual articles we can identify and cost the easier it is to work backwards to his Zuyong combi baseline (25pts without Number 2, Jazz FTO shows the skill as 1pt) and try to figure out if something is wrong. 45pts Gao is paying for over the 25pt Zuyong (removing Number 2): +1 ARM +3 BTS +1 WIP 1pt (comparing Celestials and Zhanshi appears to show WIP14 costing 1pt) Veteran +1 BS Damage 1pt Nanopulser free HMG 8pts So right now out of that 20pt difference 10 points are accounted for. The remaining unknowns need to add up to 10 points worth of stuff for him to be costed correctly. Veteran probably isn't anything more than 1 point given it's on cheap Securitate and every Morat in existence which means his BTS and ARM upgrades need to account for 9 points, to me that feels unlikely.
Based on Zuyong TacAware is 3 points. But still Shanger has better stars, more skills and more equipment with the same cost.
Oh right, I was looking at the Shang Ji and forget the TacAw profile upgrades to an AP HMG, which actually gives us the information that an AP HMG is a 2pt upgrade for the special ammo type on its own.
The real question is why is he even in WB anymore? Hilarious how he went from being in 90% of WB core in N3 to completely useless in N4. If only WB didn’t have so many “meh” char options and instead got more units with different link options.
It's tough, he is a direct competitor to Shang Ji-sus. He needs to be the most perfectly engineered sidegrade. +1 burst instead of damage on his HMG (dam+1 is just a weak AP most of the time) would be interesting, but that would put him in the Nomad only zone when linked. Strat 1 to let him donate his order(s) would also do a lot for him and create a different list archetype than Daoying + NCO. I really like that idea. And maybe that would remind CB that they need to give Sun Tze LT +1.
So are we forgetting this is N4 or what's the issue? The Shang Ji doesn't want to be anywhere within 16" of things, has a Firewall but can still be Hacked and Isolated. Gao has a +1 DAM, Veteran and B3 Breaker Pistols, meaning he is a lot more comfortable close up, immunity to Isolation and the ability to Reset out off IMM-B on a 11 with WIP14 and no help. The combination of Veteran and LT2 is interesting for some missions, not sure how much I'd use that now that it's not just a free second Order anymore. I can see the point of paying another 5 points for Tac Awareness, a Tinbot and AP, looking elsewhere I can't say I'm impressed with a 49 points BS13 AP HMG though. Would trade it against a Vet Kazak in a heartbeat.
He's paying for all that in N3 currency, missing out on the biggest change of N4. If he was more reasonably priced for this edition (gut instinct says 39 or 40 for the basic profile as I don't think the +1 DAM is very expensive at all) it'd make more sense. The increase in SWC for the LT2 profile is hurting a lot in WB as well. Although Shang-Ji do have fairly high CC for not wanting to get close...
Firstly the Shang-Jisus is really a Shock+AP Hmg. Have you looked at Gao’s linkability? He can only join Shang Ji links, where that Tinbot -6 is pretty useful. Shang Ji gets into Zhanshi links, which we know is way more effective. Also the Lt2 is mostly useless in WB considering there is no NCO to take advantage of the orders, and you certainly don’t want him unlinked. Gao isn’t bad, just not as good as his competition in WB.
The question isn't whether he's good or bad, the question I want to solve is why did he go up in cost in N4? His statline suggests if anything he should've gone down in cost, when the Hac Tao went down by 4 points how did the non LT profile for Qiang go up by 2? This is a relevant question when we've discovered other profiles in Yu Jing were incorrectly being charged with N3 costs for their weapons and equipment and ended up getting bug fixed. It's plausible that Qiang may have had the same mistake made when he's had a weird points increase compared to most HI that dropped in cost.
Nanopulser appears to be free. Ashcroft's profile shows it as a free addition to the Multirifle profile over the naked BSG profile. Cross checking with ORCs shows MR is 2pts over a combi or BSG which accounts for the point differences between Ashcroft's two profiles. So right now out of that 20pt difference 11 points are accounted for. The remaining unknowns need to add up to 11 points worth of stuff for him to be costed correctly. Veteran probably isn't anything more than 1 point given it's on cheap Securitate and every Morat in existence which means his stat upgrades need to account for 10 points, to me that feels unlikely.
Some point values up there are wrong. Baseline zuyong is 26, hmg is 34 and qiang is 45. 11 points more than zuyong with the same main weapon. What is different: +1 wip +1 arm +3 bts +1 damage + Veteran + Nanopulser - Number2 Veteran and number2 nullify each other. As said before nanopulser is supposedly free. So 11 points are left in stats and +1 damage. Looking at security te, celestial guard and Zhanshi comparisons 1wip and 3 bts both should be 1 point each. 1 arm after changes shouldn't be more than 2 points. And +1 damage has to be 1-2 points if riots got it for free. Thats 5-6 points so exacly half of the difference. Even if that was the price for Lt+1 profile it still would be too expensive. Edit: And considering this guy is supposed to be designated leader and very obvious for that matter he should get some sort of discounts the same way Daoying gets. Either getting lt+1 for free or with swc discount. Edit2: Based on Adil Mi looks like veteran is either 0 or 1 point. CoC profile is 3 points more than specialist operative+veteran and we know that CoC is 4 points. Most likely specialist and veteran are both technically 1 point but not fully. FO is 1 point and it gives you flash pulse, FO skill to target(actually worth it in n4) and can score classifieds on top of what specialist operative does so why would they cost the same.
The Zuyong is 25 when you take out Number 2, which we are because Qiang doesn't have it. And you're right I used his N3 cost of 43 points whoops.
Why is a nanopulser supposedly to cost 0p? As any other basic template weapon it's cost seems to be of 1p. That leaves us: +1 wip =+1p +1 arm=+1p +3 bts=+1p +1 damage=+2p + Veteran=+2p + Nanopulser=chaincolt=1p - Number2=-1p Total conpared to zuyong= +7p/11p (4p off) But zuyongs seem to have extra tight cost due to being the line trooper that's supposed to be the core of the sectorial. Let's compare it to the shanger HMG of 44p also to be sure. +1 wip =+1p +1 damage=+2p + Veteran=+2p + breaker pistol (+1B) = + 2p -2 CC = -1p -2 PH = -2p -2.5" on dodge = - 1p - BS attack shock = - 2p - Number2=-1p - tinbot - 6= - 2p - shock CC weapon = - 1p Nanopulser=chaincolt=1p Total = should cost -3p less than a shangji and costs +1 (4p diference) So similar estimated diference that we can consider the cost to be off without a doubt by at least 3-4points
There's a couple of units which have Combi + Nanopulser at the same price as their Boarding Shotgun profile, so either Nanopulser costs 0 or specifically the combination (Multi) Combi + Nanopulser costs no extra compared to a Boarding Shutgun which itself typically has the same price as a Combi. Chain-colts also seem like they cost 0pts on the Montessa, Kanren, Hollow Men and Zhanying
Veteran is 1p. Unless HI pay 2 due to oblivion and being even more vulnerable to EM. But yeah, Qiang should be 40 and qiven how obvious Lt he is he should get Daoying treatment of free Lt+1 or swc discount (or both since he competes with Shan ji monster).
That's because Boarding Shotgun costs ar funky all over the place. some troops pay 4points, others pay 5, 7 or 8 points for it. Some examples: Muttawiah pay 4 Shaolins pay 5 Kuangshi and most of the troops pay 7 (combi pricing) O-12 lawkeepers pay 8p for them (1p over a combi) they've messed up bigtime with the cost change of shotguns. How in the world a Light shotgun costs 2p and a BS costs 7 on average? That's without taking into consideration te fact that BS is closer to SMG in raw maths and ranges than from a combi. And SMGs cost 4-5 points
Most of those are all ultra cheap units running impetuous and irregular discounts. I think the costs on shotguns are pretty consistent elsewhere on regular non impetuous guys aren't they?
Now that you mention it... and after double chenking. I'm seen they've fixed a lot of the weirdly costed BSs
One or two of those units were a comparison to Red Fury and something else that didn't have the tiny DTW, though ;) Also checks out against the AP Spitfire on the Ye Mao - AP Spitfire is +5 points over the M Rifle, Pnzrfst, Chain-Colt while the Evaders' AP Spitfire is +5 points over M Rifle and Pnzrfst (D-Charges on both those profiles) so it absolutely seems like the two basic DTWs costs nothing on units that have another ranged weapon. (Light Flamer def. costs points and so does Chain Rifle on the Wu Ming and Kuang Shi at least)
Qiang appears to be paying 8pts to upgrade his BTS to 6 from 3, and his ARM to 4 from 3. Going on the estimation that Veteran and WIP14 are costing him 1pt each. Does anyone disagree with this estimation of costs?
