yes, I think using weapons to deal with other weapons was a no-no, such a pity. Anyway, depending on the new meta, I might end putting max ava serverbots to detonate mines
I miss when we could invert those mines and make them our own. That was a marginal but highly-amusing use of orders. And actually quite a good one for netrods/imetrons. GAIN orders in later turns for an investment now, while taking them from the opponent? Don't mind if I do! Honestly I think a LOT of cool stuff got cut out of the game "because no one used it" simply because playful, inventive games with weird tactics aren't what you see in a tourney setting. But home games, friendlies, weeklies? I tried -all- that weird shiz, and found some of it quite worthwhile. Bandits Scavenging an autocannon were AWESOME.
I'd love to see an "advanced rules" mod for Infinity come out someday, like Code One is the Intro Version. (Seriously though, who's actually going to -play- Code One now that N4 is this simple?)
Back on-topic though: The removal of NCO from the general Moiras profile is a good start for a price cut. Move it to just a couple of the profiles. If the designers want to keep the number of profiles down cut the otherwise-identical Multirifle profiles with different CC weapons... they're not a CC unit! And bring back the Kusanagi/Healer/Custodier dreamteam! All it needs is a special fireteam mention on each of their profiles, not a big change.
NCO is good, though? I would like to point out that Moiras got 4-4 MOV, Zappers, N2, NCO and a small CC buff for... 1-3pts depending on profile. That's pretty fantastic! And given that the big weakness of Moira links was warband template spam, and Tactical Window limits that a lot, your Moira link is now a lot more dangerous and effective. That Sniper ARO is mean, and that you can also spend the LT order getting the link moving is sweet.
Yeah, but you can similarly bloat any other pretty pricey unit and say that it got better. Yeah, they got better, but they already cost so much in points that many people can't justify taking them (especially when they have to compete with riot grrls link). And template spam is still there with reworked shotguns. I never took moiras in my lists other than solo sniper. I'd be glad if they just dropped all that fancy extra equipment and some cc so they would drop to 20-ish points for ODD+combi/multirifle. Even better - make moiras pure shooty specialists, healers pure cc specialists and maybe Custodiers with above average wip. That way their mixed links have a purpose and they don't duplicate each other. And healers can finally get ODD instead of Mimetism in exchange for lower BS (Although I wish someday to see that Overwatch-like sniper doctor just in case I need to bring back that downed Morlock on the other side of the table).
Yeah I mean I'd love for my shit to be 2/3rds of the cost and still have ODD and MULTI Rifles too, and be MOV 4-4 with BS 12, and a Pony as well while we're at it, but we don't have that because it would be unbalanced. Moiras are expensive because they are one of the very, very few -6 Mimetism Core Linkable troops in the game with serious heavy weapons. You have to expect to pay a points premium for that! The weakness they had before was that they were in a world where you got smoked and templated because people could easily put half a dozen orders into a warband, but now they can't. NCO makes them more order efficient, Zappers make them much more of a threat to TAGs and HI which can be expect to be seen a lot this edition. The meta is better for them, they are better, and they barely cost any more (notably most MI actually paid for the MOV 4-4 and everything else they got on top, Moiras did not!)
I'm not sure if I'm dumb or what but I'm having trouble trying to figure out how a Moira's BS 12 becomes BS 10... +3 for fireteam: core, -6 for speculative attack still puts you at BS 9; if they're targeted that puts you back up to 12 but I can't manage to get it to 10.
I've actually poured thru the N4 Corregidor looking for new spec fire options nearly first thing. Massacre is nice but I wish Wolfgang got regular grenades... Anyways my point is to not discount spec fire.
And if pretty much every model in the game didn't pack a DTW of some description or shock that might actually mean something.
You could make this same argument if they were 75pts each. What they have got, individually is good yes. What they cost for how easy they are to kill is not, especially when you multiply it by several troopers most of which won't use the premium skills they are paying for, and there's little way to not do that if you're taking a link, since they can't substitute in much that doesn't have the same problems. Mimetism (-6) is fantastic. But on Moiras it's a little like a boxer who has a great defence against a standard jab, but gets floored every time by an uppercut. It doesn't take long for people to start throwing uppercuts (templates or MSV) to make your defence ineffective. Zappers are great. But mostly when you're trading up with them, which Moiras aren't often. They're also good for stopping a Rambo killing all of them (assuming it can't get a template on several to start, which is likely when you're in a link). ETC. These problems are exacerbated when you're expensive, and unoptimised, and taken in multiples. And no one is even really asking to change the core of that even. Just a little attention on few optimising tweaks like a lot of other things got to help them compete a little better so you see the models on the table a little more often. I dunno about you, but in N3 I only ever saw them on the table when someone was trying them out, or stubbornly trying to prove something, and neither of those often. And my experience seems to be the general one. N4 doesn't look to be changing that so far, and it's a pity, because Reverends are cool.
also, there is this little problem (That most people tend to ignore), the only moira without NCO is the Lt profile, which pays SWC. Is one of the easiest Lt to discover in the game because NCO is no private, so "have this nun NCO? No? then is the Lt" also, yes, they got 4-4 MOV... like all other MI in the game. they got better? yes. They are still overcosted? also yes.
They do have NCO. It's not mutually exclusive with being LT and lets them spend the order while being in a Fireteam. The SWC is still a headscratcher, though taking it as LT in a full Moira link with a lone Moderator decoy or two could be OK against opponents who are very fond of LT assassins- Bakunin has enough ways of hiding SWC off the board that it's not immediately obvious you've taken the profile.
then I don't understand why she is the only one that went down in points. I suppose because NCO on her only works to hide the order she brings? Maybe that's the reason for the SWC
Wait, but if she has NCO in profile and provide a LT order - does she reveal herself when she uses LT order? Technically she uses that order, but "considers it as another Regular Order" not the LT order. Still not Moira though. We need to pray more!
