Repeaters in ALPEH

Im not sure, overclock doesnt use the repeaters, it just applies to all rems with repeaters so i dont know if itll qualify to make them lose cybermask.

Edit: ninja'd

 

The point on "we have strong hackers and several that infiltrates" goes to hell when we look that, as the hacking mechanics are nowadays, the best hacker faction is the one with the most hackers and repeaters that can ARO any enemy hacker with 3+ models (specially if those are KHD or H+), forcing the active player to spread his Burst or declare Reset directly.

 

Gonna disagree. In active turn, having low end hackers can all get shredded by a naga khd. He might die but dogged says he can continue for quite a bit for cheap cost. Also, with pitcher you can target enemy hackers in 1v1 fights.

For reactive, all our normally used hackers (danavas, mk2, naga, dasyu, scylla) are capable of going into a marker state and be immune to enemy hackers until lof and discovery occur.

The only faction that beats us in a hacking fight is nomads, which is their shtick, and we still can give them a run for their money.

 

Precisely my point is that you won't be facing certain enemies in a 1v1 situation, but one where your hacker reveals himself inside the ZoC of an enemy repeater, thus generating ARO from ALL enemy hackers at the same time.

For instance, imagine a Moran in ZoC of your Naga. Then the enemy AROes with his own KHD Zero (one or two...), 2xH+ (the interventors), and at least 1 normal or EVO hacker. Best case scenario, the Naga goes Dogged and one of the enemy hackers goes down (probably the Zero), or you go for broke against one Interventor with a Surprise Shot... in which case the Naga will totally die a lot.

Sure, a naga is better than a Zero. But 2 KHD zeros cost the same as a single Dasyu.

 

This is the perfect time to use hacking - myrmidon style :) But yeah, quantity > quality when it comes to hacking, especially when KHD are on the board. Redrum is so powerful that wip 13, 14 or 15 does not count that much, nor does dogged or NWI. And i've never seen BTS being a really good protection when you ignore firewall mod and strike with DAM16 breaker or DT ammo. BTS may have been better in N2, but now it's not that great.

 

While i understand your point, your example was for the 1 faction stronger than us as i brought up in that post. And the multiple hackers is less the issue than the morans.

Morans are strong as they always have a repeater going and the 2 koalas. If they didn't have a repeater going then shooting them in the face is easy.

So against morans with an interventor hd+ and zero khd. It absolutely worth the nagas life to have a 45% to kill the interventor (who may be their lt) amd remove both koalas.

If successful, the naga removed 25 points 0.5 hd+ from the table, also removed both koalas which is a big reason for the 0.5 swc morans.

 

No koalas were mentioned... and the Lt interventor was not mentioned as a possibility since there are more options for a Nomads Lt, besides the Interventor Lt can be Cybermask'd... A model requires certain simplifications, else it becomes too dispersed to ilustrate or study the case at hand.

Let's go the other way. Onyx list with Kerr-Nau, Bit&Kiss, EVO (EC's has Combi), Ikadronx2, specialist remote x2, flash pulse remote, Nexus Hacker, Umbra (of any kind) hacker (assault or plus).
Granted, no "surprise repeaters" will show up, but...

Let's go Haqquislam. 2xBarid KHD (16pts, pitcher), 2 repeater remotes, 2 specialists remotes, three camo markers in the middle of the table (surprise! Hawwa, Hunzaktus...), 2 Druze hackers (KHD and/or AHD)...

The advantage of AROing using allied repeaters against enemy repeaters is that all hackers are "connected" so to speak, since you activate your miniatures one at a time (sans Coordinated orders) so going inside an enemy repeater... painful if you are not really really sure.

So the "hacker war" is all about having more hackers and better repeater coverage than the enemy. Granted, in the Transmission Matrix ITS mission the advantage goes straight to Aleph when it comes to hacking power (with the Interventors and their BTS9 with WIP 15 being the exception), but that's because the repeater coverage is there already.

I would have loved a 20pts KHD Danavas... -.- (or a 17 points non-pitcher KHD one)

 

Most of those factions all referenced have repeaters, but no way to start them outside deployment or to defend their hackers from 1 v 1 hacking. While their repeater net is adorable, a naga getting to 8" of the hacker itself is a dead enemy hacker (especially with suprise shot). Active models in the hacking war are powerful as they can pick their battle.

And if they being that many hackers, a larger portion of their list cannot move into alephs repeaters for the same reason listed.

 

You can read it at the wiki. Just look for Repeater, and below the definition of the skill, there's a place where it states that a repeater under the cammo or impersonation marker loses it as soon as its repeater is used by a friendly hacker. That's why you have to use first Overclock and then Cybermask, or otherwise you'd be losing Cybermask when aplying Overclock to the Devabot.

 

Yes, but they force your hackers to spend orders into maneuvering. The truth is that dueling nomads in hacking is quite the chore, since they have the orders to set the net and maneuver their cheap hackers around, while Aleph and EC are more order-starved. Plus, they also protect their remotes against hacking, since the tactic of getting there with an AHD and imm1 the Total Reaction to fry it at a distance without a FtF roll (for when you can't place it with a -12 so it can only dodge) won't work, forcing us to send a repeater somehow (Pitcher becoming our only option).

 

Yea but it should be a chore, Nomads are the hacking faction. This whole debate should honestly be about how Aleph's ability to hack compares to non-Nomad factions. I think once you think of Aleph in those terms, they look really good.

Aleph's ability to having hacking devices put on top of units you would already take is crazy. A BS Proxy MK. II has TO, infilitration, NWI, BS 13, and is 21 points. Then they get an AHD on top of that.

 

Compared to other hacking factions, Aleph's hacking power relies on units more expensive and harder to kill, aside from the Danavas and Scylla, who depends heavily on cybermask to protect herself from enemy hacks. The advantage is based on high-WIP troops, with usually poor BTS (0-3 is the norm, with the very expensive Asura being the top at 6), so the faction is more centered on active turn hacking, choosing the battles and hide to hack again or die.

 

Yea but what's bad about that? If we take the comparison to shooting I want a higher BS instead of higher armor most of the time, and I'd want higher WIP instead of higher BTS. Not having ARO potential is fine if your hackers can go into states where they cannot be targeted.

 

You asked for a comparison, not a state judgement... Personally, I think that Aleph is starved for orders, thus making the "active hacking" a choice that costs other options, while Nomads, who have more orders, can also go into a passive hack strategy. Just that, and my personal experience of the Mk2 hacker dying 90% of the time he faces an enemy hacker.

 

I suppose since all of the conversations i have had on this thread, this post is 100% how i feel the power of our hackers are at (hide in reactive, attack in active).

But my view is colored by the lists i create is 16 order lists so i have the orders to use on the danavas.

 

It is quite possible, but the punch in that lists is based around HI Posthumans, the rest being combis and maybe a mk12 Agema or Spitfire Deva. And no Lt hiding, unless you sacrifice that MSV2... Not to mention, 4 remotes costing 8 points each and three netrods, so 5 orders are defenseless (but they carry repeaters) while 2 only have a Flash Pulse.

 

Sadly I'm going to have to postpone the discussion on the force in my lists till next monday as I'm going to rumble with these lists next week. (I want to do okay and hoping for no spoilers) But if anyone is interested i can post my lists and how i did.

If i do battle reports, i expect to be rather poor quality (I'm bad at it), but can try that as well.

 

I get that if you use the repeater with a friendly hacker it is revealed. Overclock doesn't use the Repeater. It is a board wide program that effects units with repeaters just as Fairy Dust effects all HIs regardless of their proximity to a repeater.

"

• This Hacking Program affects all the friendly REMs possessing the Repeater piece of Equipment from the same Army List as the user.

• Once activated, this program's range covers the entire game table."

 

Neither am I, frankly. And about the AD repeater... what for? Nomads have one, and I seldom see it even on hacking devoted lists (and t's mostly a non-specialist specialist remote). I would be much more happy with the Tomcat's Deployable Repeater profile, with some overcost... But at the end, we need SWC discounts.