It'd certainly make me run double TAG, all the time, as I almost never play 2 groups outside of a tournament. My gut reaction to that hypothetical change would be to double down on the Camo Infiltrating Specialists and Warbands for the order efficiency, since you don't get the wiggle room to safely try anything weird and order intensive anymore. I'd also have to drop NCA because it kinda requires a lot of orders spent separately on shooting and objectives, and a group maximum of 7 makes it too frail to both fight the enemy and push buttons. The upside would be a minor reduction in the number of turn 1 stampings.
As you say, your "quick scan" Is worth absolutely nothing if you don't play them. One can think that blackjaks and devil dogs are strong 30+ points units but on the table they are support units for the other cheap profiles, if you just play with many of those your list is going to suck bad. And surprisingly vanilla plays absolutely different than USARF and those are also absolutely different compared tho cha and that is something I really like. What people seem to forget is that yes ariadna has scary weapons and can punch above his weight that's cool and their flavour, but they also lack MANY other tools like odd/to, albedo, visors 2+, hackers, tags, decent remotes and much much more. Vanilla ariadna can field veterans, tank hunters and other sort of heavy hitting troops but that doesn't mean that they are going to be able to stay on par with barely affected monsters like the current aleph, tohaa or shas. Because a 30 points scout and a 34 points Dart are not the same by any stretch of imagination. And that aplies to many other profiles. At the very least I expect all sort of net roads and cheap remotes to dissapear. If that is not the case this is going to be a mess for ariadna and haqqislam.
@MATRAKA14 Dart's not really a good comparison, her profile in Infinity is far too powerful. She's one of the most egregious examples of SMG discounting.
It is the man argument against the "new restriction" and I'am really agree with it, but this will be the "new standar" and still we will have "mods" to play with our full armies. How much this "new infinity" standar impact in the game in the end it will be in the hands of the players and people who do the tournaments. Maybe I'am placing too many hope in the mods? I hope not. 2 Combats groups with 7-8 models were something you could see with no much problem back in n2, I don't see why this will be "the end of the single group", if you are sure you don't have 2 big guys with a lot of orders which can easily hurt your expensive one group troups... why you will not play with one single group? Or you mean for some factions? I have to recognize that bothered me too, I really don't see exactly how this will work... but we will see it in not much time from now. Barely 1 month. Again, to play with 2,3 or 4 groups it will not be prohibited... Only it will not be the standar mode of game play, nothing more, nothing less. Every change of edition in every game brings some changes on what can or not be played and how, mostly how. Of course, if someone bought maybe 8 troups, probably most of then with "evil twins", and now it will be really pissed off, but as I said before, how the change it will work we can only see when it comes. Maybe nobody like it and people continue playing as always.
I think this point of the group distributions will be worthy dependant of how the Commands Tokens will work in N4.
Did you just reduce the power level of Tohaa to the Triads "gimmick"? Color me amused. Now I wonder how good Tohaa would be with the usual Core, Haris, Duo setup. Hmm, ah yes Spiral exists. Kinda doing well too.
They are meaningful and objectively decent, it's just that the value of a regular order is too high. That, plus why take anything without a marker state when you can instead have a marker state?
No, just no. The no cap mod is not a valid argument. You are missing the point, the 15 cap is the new standard and USARF or other armies will need a substantial redesign to be able to fit all their troops in new roles. After that the armies will be completely different than they where before, so playing USARF with the no cap mod will be completely different than playing USARF now. Additionaly I want to make this clear. This is NOT about confort zones, this change is like taking pano and changing it from the 1+ bs high tech faction to a smoke heavy faction all of a sudden. If you add spearheads and expensive troops to USARF you are completely removing their flavour from the game. I much rather have 5 completely different and colorful sectorials than having 30 clone factions with some small variations of sniper towers, and expensive spearhead troops. And this change moves the game even further in this direction.
If it wasn't, then why are there profiles over 20pts in USARF, and why have they been there since the birth of the sectorial? Big think time indeed.
In USARF those 20+ pts units don't do well without cheap troops and cheap troops don't do well without the 20+ pts units. USARF profiles are cogs in a machine they are designed to support each other. Usually an USARF list has a good mix of all available troops and manages to have 15+ regular orders by design. If you just fill your list with 20+ pts troops just because their price your list is going to be rubbish.
Source: dude trust me /s Let's see it it goes when they're actually used on the table, against other lists capped by the 15 order constraint, using the N4 profile costs, hmm?
You are free to not believe me. This is a forum after all, I can offer my experience with the game since the beginning of n2 and my experience with USARF since release including tactical window experience. If that's not enough I can also share with you the current USARF stats in tactical window where they are at a 36% win rate. If even with all that you don't see value in my opinion that's ok. But there is no need to devalue a valid comment with "source: dude trust me"
Not to mention all the Missile and Rocket Launchers, Panzerfausts and what not...very covert. Covert would be only a few guys with silenced pistols and smg's. And on a side note, because everyone seems to forget about the Ireggulars in Haqq, this: Counter,Unmasking wip ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 8 2 2 FARZAN (Marksmanship L1, Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) MUKHTAR (Multispectral Visor L2) Red Fury, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 37) GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) NAFFATÛN Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) RAFIQ REMOTE FTO (Fireteam: Duo) Red Fury, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 22) GROUP 2 5 5 2 HALQA Doctor Plus (Medikit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19) NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) BARID Hacker (Killer Hacking Device UPGRADE: Lightning) Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) NAHAB Red Fury, Nanopulser / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon, Knife. (1 | 36) HAWWA' (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) DAYLAMI Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 7) DAYLAMI Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 7) DAYLAMI Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 7) KASYM BEG Chain Rifle, Panzerfaust, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 16) ZULEYKA 2 Light Flamethrowers, Smoke Grenades / 2 Breaker Pistols, DA CCW. (0 | 14) 4 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army or this: Capture ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 7 3 ASAWIRA (Fireteam: Haris) Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 44) ASAWIRA Doctor Plus (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 39) MUYIB Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and Smoke Ammo.) / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 23) MUYIB (X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22) DAYLAMI Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 7) DAYLAMI Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 7) DAYLAMI Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 7) GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) FARZAN (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) GROUP 2 6 2 2 RAGIK Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 26) BARID Hacker (Assault Hacking Device UPGRADE: Icebreaker) Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) GHULAM (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) FARZAN (Marksmanship L1, Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army will not work anymore. Yes, they will overhaul at least HB, but like with Ariadna, you lose out on faction idendity. You will end up using one or two Irregulars max like every other army.
If that is an argument to discard an opinion then it's also an argument to discard all the opinions and comments in this thread.
I mean, yes. Inferences are fine and the basis of the thread, as opposed to categorical statements of sectorials SURELY being dumpstered. Can you acknowledge those are different things?
