White Banner so far...

I can see where you're coming from here, and it's a good point. In a vacuum there's very little you could do to the Combi directly to make it compete with the Chain Rifle on this sort of platform. It could be useful to keep an eye on them, however, in case of changes to Smoke or Fury since gaining Cover or making the Smoke Special Dodge less reliable could lead to serious reevaluations of how Warbands are played, making FTF, multiple-wound weapons like the Combi Rifle more desirable. Considering how much the traditional Chain Smoker Warband has been dominating the meta, I'd be really surprised if they were left unchanged in N4.

In N3 though, yeah, I make a point of trying to use everything myself to find any nice hidden uses and even I haven't been brave enough to stick a Combi on my Warbands. They're really bad compared to the super-powerful auto-hitting perfect defense of the Chain Rifle.

 

I'd say that if something changes for Shaolin to make them other than sacrificial "send in the next wave" troops that they currently are, then we're looking at a price increase. As such I'd ask myself how much of the unit's design hinges on them being stupidly cheap and how well they would work if they instead were similarly priced to Zhanshi but got changed to be reliable smoke troops more similar to Jaguars. I can personally see such a unit be a valuable addition to a Zhanshi or Jujak link as a YJ-Wildcard to provide ablative melee ability and bodies as well as stick down smoke.

Still doesn't change that I'd rather see a Yu Jing HI with smoke 'nades, but ya know...

I think the restrictions you're alluding to are being designed away every time those sectorials get an update.

To be fair, Jujak does make for excellent version of combat engineers (they just need that skill on more load outs) and for me at least, they've replaced Shang-Ji and it's Shang-Ji that are redundant and unnecessary unless something mindblowing happens going from C1 to N4 (such as for instance smoke grenades on 'em...).

 

I think you'd still see people taking chain rifle Monks, Galwegians, Morlocks, etc even if you left them unchanged and increased their cost by 5 points.

 

I'm not saying they don't have usuable profiles, I'm saying why do they exist as opposed to just having WB themed Zuyong, the same as the ORCs operate. Why are we using up valuable unit/SKU slots rehashing the same shit on new models?

 

Absolutely, there's no doubt in my mind that the Combi Rifles and Boarding Shotguns need to be dropped permanently regardless of what other changes are made. The unit design just doesn't work with those weapons at all, particularly with BS 9, but there's room for altering the design in other ways.

 

Yeah, that's what I thought you meant, but I think they are sufficiently different in role application from Zuyong that there's sufficient gap between them. Zuyong does suffer a bit from being an old design which causes inevitable overlap where there shouldn't be any in vanilla, but there's so much difference in weapons between them and that as long as they're not in the same sectorial there's justification for the SKU. I just find that there is a unit that occupies the role smack middle between Zuyong and Jujak...

Anyway, I don't want to harp on about how I feel about Shang-Ji, I think people are already sick of reading it.

 

This 100%. I would like different CC weapon options much like Morlocks enjoy.

 

I did once. For Lifeblood.

Remember that mission? It was trash.

 

If they change Fireteams so that Irregular Orders work in them similar to how TacAware does (which I think would be an interesting change that could broaden the dynamics of Fireteams without necessarily power creeping the game), then I think Shaolin would make for an excellent unit to be Up-To-One Wildcard and to be able to form Fireteams on their own - but then I think that the 5 point version is a tiny bit too cheap. Sure it won't work well with a defensive Zhanshi team simply because the irregular order will be wasted most of the time (which honestly is the limiting factor), but it's still a bit on the cheap side.
On the other hand, what if the Shaolin points got nudged to about... 8*? I'm talking about SMG and Assault Pistol being decent guns for a low-BS unit as alternatives to Combi Rifles and for Light Shotguns to be a good alternative to Boarding Shotgun + Chain Rifle.

As for Shang-Ji, whether this would be a benefit or points bloat depends on how it is altered in N4 (because it's not quite there yet in N3), but Assault isn't in CodeOne and ShangJi in CodeOne got increased CC. Ditto Berserk (which is fairly decent in N3). It's difficult to determine from Shang-Ji prices, though they do seem to get a slightly smaller discount compared to N3 prices than units in their same price category, I'd still give it a reasonable chance that something similar to Assault/Berserk** is still hidden for Shang-Ji which could potentially be the final piece to how to diverge Shangers from Jujak/Zuyong.

* Assuming the current general points cost remains roughly the same for most sub-30 units
** These are both abilities that just doesn't exist in CodeOne and also doesn't seem to be translated into something similar like how Natural Born Warrior translates to Martial Arts 1 is for Gunnar Lundmark.

 

Would be cool to see a skill that gives you an effective +1B for dodging rather than just a higher PH.

 

I see, you are not think highly about N3 White Banner.

I am not experienced player, so I chose faction by their background and miniatures design.
For now I have a couple of tohaa on my shelf (so sorry, they are not playing as big faction),
those with Simbiodudes. They are so cute!

But after long time of struggling and doubts I bought Kaldstrom.
Other new player take PanO part, and Yu Jing for me. They reminds me about my first trip to another country.
It was winter Harbin. I was charmed.

I am a talkative person, so sorry)

Main question! Am I understand it right, that White Banner would be different in N4, and for now there are nothing clear?

 

Yes, white banner will function fairly differently in n4 compared to now. Even with the changes we know right now, the ye mao are looking like they still be an excellent fireteam in n4. In n3 the 4-2 move makes them too unappealing.
To choose just one example.

 

Good to know. Thank you!
Anyway, I'll play them) (but it is strange, cause I don't know, what it would be look like. I guess, this is true about each other faction in N4)

 

May I ask why the Hundun is better in Vanilla? How you use him wouldn't change unless I'm missing something. If he gets Hidden Deployment in N4 then hes amazing as is.

 

My only real concern for WB that might truly fuck them in N4 is that they may badly require another more expensive source of smoke, one that links like Lupe. Relying hard on the monks when bringing them into the list becomes far more difficult, especially in numbers required for backup in case of their impetuous nature screwing them over is a bad sign for the sectorial.