I should have been more clear regarding my deliberate omission of smoke or other fundamental alterations to the general deployability of the lists components. I was trying to really zero in on upsizing a few of the individual components without changing the dynamic too much or slapping in a 50+ point choice. This is not the list I think either myself or HFT would actually build for play.
As I wrote in Haqqislam topic, TBH I never fully understood why Haqqislam is seen as a spam army if we have one of the most expensive line infantry (Ghulams / Naffatuns). We also have great, cheap, irregular guys (Ghazi, Daylami), but still my favourite 300 pts lists were created with about 14-16 units of a good quality. Or even with 1 CG - especially in Ramah TaskForce - because that's the Infinity I like the most ;) So I don't feel the new Tactical Window suggestion as something bad. We have to wait and see what changes will the fatty ones get. It seems that HI and TAGs are getting cheaper, both in pts and SWC so it will be interesting to field more of them instead of some lighter units. In N2 one of my staple units was AzRa'il Feuerbach - and I'd gladly come back to regularly fielding some HI or even the new TAG in my lists. PozdRawiam / Greetings
Your mid-tier guys are both relatively cheap and thoroughly great, mixed with a few Ghulams or REMs and the obligatory Warbands Haqq seems like it can be run at 15+ without compromising on troop quality at all. Also some people describe a second combat group as order spam. I used to be one of those people.
Generating regular orders to fuel one or two pieces you enjoy using is not a crime, nor is it spam. It’s a legitimate build and play style. spam would be taking 30 keisotsu . spam is sometimes cooked and served as a breakfast meat in Hawaii and japan . spam is delicious and I want to eat , play and be spam whenever the hell I please. Thank you , good DAY sirs.
I’m being negative. Hopefully changes to points costing and profiles will alleviate some of my agitation . but I don’t want to see any play styles stamped out for arbitrary reasons . I have personally had no negative experiences from someone’s list... The player ? Sure. The mission? Yes. Never a list .
Some factions tend to leverage relatively cheap irregulars and combatants, which made them into rather horde-ish army, and I thought it was legitimate playstyle. I also used to put some cheap meatshields into my Nomads list and usually it went over 15+ orders. Nonetheless, if CB wants to limit the volume to solidify the 'skirmish' characteristic of the game, I'm also fine with that. Sometimes we need some clarification about what exactly we are playing, even though it entails some sacrifices. Anyhow, I'm not like 'CB SHOULD TAKE BACK WHAT THEY'VE SAID WITH A SOLEMN GRAVITY', but I assume CB should and will take responsibilities for some peoples' disappointment and patience.
And I'd like to spread some "negativity" in this thread as well: While most of the Renders are really great (like already mentioned by others) I think with the TAGs they only have a 50% hit ratio. The two designs by Javier are great. Blue Wolf and Cutters nailed it. But the Sphinx ... I am not sure of. And I really liked the concept art. Maybe if I see it painted, but right now it's more like a "meh". And the Zeta is a complete miss. Since I like the word, it's an abomination of a TAG. The proportions are way off, the gun way too long, the pose doesn't work for me. I see no head (yes, it's remote controlled and doesn't need a head, but still). IMO it's ugly af. Which isn't bad for me, since I am not playing O12, but just my opinion. Conclusion: They should let Javier design every major miniature in the game
While I’m not a fan of the character flood coming from Aristeia and questionable mercenary companies and characters coming from the last graphic novel, the new characters from the betrayal set can all work as reskins for existing units. Which is okay. The Zeta TAG has a questionable center of mass. The head and overall design is okay, but where the Szalamandra showed great details how he handles this massiv weapon, the Zeta somehow defies gravity and recoil. The Cutter is great, the Sphinx is another good looking TAG (though I may be removing the sword or whatever happened on the back). The Blue Wolf is also a great piece, questioning only the claw that wasn’t presented in the artwork. The Guijia CCW would be better in my small world. Raising the final question: Why do all TAGs have (roughly) the same pose? The rest are all solid designs.
The problem with the 15 Troop CAP is not that much (and i say that as a Caledonia player)... Until you try to play a 400 points match...
Easy-ish. Not much ARO, could do with reshuffling in 2nd group like this: My point is - all armies have options for filling the points and even being more or less effective, without being spammy.
You've got 38pts left and you took two Kameels, a Fanous, four Ghulams and two Naffatuns. Yes you've avoided cheap irregular troops but you've absolutely gone full in on cheap regular troops. And that's fine, but I don't think it's a good argument. You could easily upgrade the Kameels or a Ghulam or two to more effective troops and be bang on 300pts. You filled up the orders quickly because you deliberately went with an absolute shedload of line troops and REM cheerleaders.
I agree with you on Zeta, looks overloaded and Cutter, nice fitting design , but a bit boring. Upper half of the Sphinx looks good, but I especially dislike the highheels, this just looks ridicoulus. And I must say i love the Claws on Blue Wolf, looks awesome (could be a bit sharper, but I know this is hard to manufacture) and fits the Hunter-theme.
Yeah, you are forcing me to take units i dont want to play. Is that fair? Who will be happy to play with suboptimal lists?
And we don't have yet a true clue of how the "costs" from some units will be remade, so all of this his highly hipotetic. Maybe some units as IPs or TAGs goes down, and some others like the "terrible ghazis" goes up. Still, I prefer a solution where no play style will be "cut", but for true, we have to wait and see. If all know that the other player bring only max 15 miniatures we will do something with our lists, the problem is when you don't know if you will face 20 orders spam or 10 elite guys. Maybe CB choose 15 because is the quantity most players play, at least in ITS Tournaments. My hassasin list most of the times are 10+3 troups. And Acontecimento, mostly 10+5, I think the most large number I had ever played was 16 orders with Acontecimento. And really, Is not so often that I will play against "spam" list troup but more "spam order" lists.
right, but my point was not “this is a complete list”. The point I’m trying to make is , look how easy it is to hit 15 orders in a pretty stock standard (though watered down) list. I admit I fudged things in my favor. Edit: furthermore , I think it illustrates how arbitrary the model count is. As I could easily add 1 expensive troop or 2 moderately costed troops to hit 300 points with 16 or 17 models. It’s just an annoying limit to place . What if I have 15 models and 3 points and want a war cors? How annoying is that...
It's not the most elegant of rules but there is also free-play and furthermore you did, as you say, fudge it slightly in your favour This, for example, would be an example of a classic style of Haqq list which fits the new limit perfectly Haqqislam ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 MUKHTAR (Multispectral Visor L2) Red Fury, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 37) DJANBAZAN HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35) FARZAN (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26) GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) HAWWA' Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26) NAHAB Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Submachine Gun + E/Mitter, Nanopulser / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 30) KHAWARIJ (Fatality L2) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 32) HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) GROUP 2 2 3 2 BARID Hacker (Killer Hacking Device UPGRADE: Lightning) Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) NAJJARUN Engineer Rifle + Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17) LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
