Wow this is 10/10 quality concern trolling and pearl clutching. Remind me again which countries/groups throughout history don't have problematic pasts? Also the SS were disgusting scum lowlife butchers and I think it's really telling @Nuada Airgetlam has some very adjacent iconography as his profile picture. Your fash is showing.
Because it's far too easy for asshats to adopt such things and use them as foot in the door to bring their own attitudes into the game. Similarly to things @Teleute described. Though I think Infinity has a pretty good track record of not encouraging this kind of things. And that's good - games are an extrapolation of our world, and I'm all for using them as a medium for a discussion about difficult real life themes - just not for the reenactment of the shitty ones. edit: mmm, more trolling. Guys if you don't have anything of value to add just go play somewhere else. No one forces you to take part in this thread.
Yeah, it's the responsibility of each individual and their community to prevent that and I have personally never had a bad experience of that kind. Then again, I will also not deny anyone else's bad experience – they are bound to happen. However, I am also not reenacting the slaughter of the Indians or the American Civil War when I use my Desperados. I'm usually fighting off alien invasions and megacorps trying to colonize my precious planet, so that should be fine.
Didn't know pointing out that a guy has nazi symbolism in his profile picture is considered trolling. No wonder alt-righters are running rampant in this community.
Dude, I have encountered some messed up players but even I think you're trolling. There are probably some alt-righters but they aren't running rampant. And the SS symbol is specifically blunt as an allusion to the Norse sowilo rune. If you are going to call out sharp lightning bolts you might as well call out The Flash, the Weather Channel, and electrical diagrams. Never thought I'd block a user with less than a handful of post but here we are.
Makes someone wonder if their first post was made in good faith, or simply attempting to gin up a mob and get themselves some attention...
Yeah, the experience is obviously anecdotal; one guy's bad experience doesn't put the whole community into doubt, just like another's good experience doesn't mean there are no problems. Consider this: various real life influences can be more or less problematic - I think we can safely say that being able to play Wehrmacht in a WWII game won't be as controversial as playing Gestapo - and that different people draw their line in different spots. I've always thought you to be one of the more level-headed forumites. I know that you don't like this thread, but don't jump on this trolling wagon.
These guys alter and hide their symbols all the time to try and be slick. You don't see alot of dual lightning bolts on alot of products and media because it's the ss symbol.
It might be their intention to just harmlessly have two lightning bolts be right next to each other on a red and black image of a wolf. Specifically for a unit designed to police and oppress a minority in setting. I'm sure that's all it could be...
Well, at this point I'm pretty sure that at least three accounts are simply trolling to fully derail this thread and force mods to lock it. Don't fall for it, people. Just ignore the trolls, we can discuss controversial topics without making a scene out of it.
Remember kids, if you point out obvious red flags about an alt-right troll poster(Nuada), you are the real troll poster. Seriously Stiopa why do you keep acting like the SS symbols aren't a big deal? It's pretty concerning to me at least. As pointed out by others Nuada won't even address it or denounce the symbolism. What are we supposed to think here?
In serious good faith how is this trolling? This entire thread is started because of hate symbols in the game. It then moves down the path of wondering if they were intentional or not because of x fluff reasons and then based on music people listen to? I want to know why the op is so comfortable with this symbology being the literal face of their online persona here on the forums?
Looking into it, y'all actually have a point, especially Onlinemph. The Anti-Defamation League (who I know are not the perfect organization, especially when it comes to Israel and Palestine) have a database of hate symbols and specifically mention the use of sharp double lightning bolts as associated with Neo-Nazi groups in the US prison system. There are of course legit uses, like the band KISS, and I doubt CB meant to purposefully evoke Neo-Nazis, but I can see how the double lightning bolts on a unit that specifically targets a minority population can be hella discomforting.
Part of the issue is that nowadays it's common to find people seeing problems everywhere, as well as those seeing problems nowhere. It's becoming less common for folks to view something from another persons side. Haqqislam is a reformed Islam that abandoned the radical elements, but there's plenty of the radical elements within the materials. Hell, Yu Jing has ALL the baggage of current day China. Pano has crusaders and such, Nomads have plenty of baggage, it's easy to focus on some confederate symbology of Ariadna (which has plenty of racist origins, but also has plenty of folks that don't attribute racism to it), but every faction has it's issues. Some of it is intentionally drawing past ideas into a sci-fi future where the ideas are transformed. Except ALEPH, my pure ALEPH faction is the only one above these matters, and comparisons to between OSS/ SSS to SS are purely Nomad propoganda. Trust the computer. The idea that the symbol that started the thread is a white power dog whistle to encourage nazi's to buy the game (or, I guess to play Cosmoflot) or a secret symbol of the racism of a Spanish company or something seems far fetched and like people are looking for reasons to be offended. I don't care if they keep it, I don't care if they change it. Heck, I don't even understand why individual units (especially single heroes) all HAVE such symbols. I was not offended by the old Haqqislam symbol, nor the change to a new one. Most of the posters getting bent out of shape about this, get bent out of shape often about any other little thing, so meh, life goes on.
This here is one of the most crucial things. Too many people don't want to understand other people or the world, they just want to score internet points and feel like they "won".
It might have a basis to make the troll, but it seems pretty obvious that the poster doesn't ACTUALLY care about Nu's icon. It has some value pointing out that folks will see what they want to see, and that ignoring the lightning or such connections because that's "obviously" not what it means is hypocritical to the OP using the same logic on the unit image that started the thread, but... the point is obviously just to troll Nu and rankle him, not to discuss the topic or anything.
Or it could, perhaps, simply be that it looks neat and compelling, and that a bunch of Spanish artists and graphic designers think it looks nice, without any intended deeper meaning beyond that. What people choose to project onto it based on their own... "idiosyncrasies" is more something for each individual to puzzle out for themselves, one might posit...
What's left to discuss? The OP said it's a hate symbol on the new unit. Several people refuted that no, it isn't, citing actual anti-hate research organizations. Then speculation turned to the name, based on it's use by a questionable russian metal band, even though both just use a russian/slavic word for werewolf. It's unfortunate, but I don't think it's enough to make personal accusations of bigotry over. Several people have then brought up, with various levels of trolling, that by the same standard used to call the new symbol a hate symbol, that the OP's logo is just as guilty, if not more. (Personally, if I had seen the two in a lineup, and told that one is a hate symbol, I would have picked the wolf head one.) This entire thing is also colored by the fact that the OP has had previous very antagonistic interactions on several forum topics, and so many people are likely coming to this with hackles up based on the speaker, and the aggressive wording in the original post.
I mean, yes? Like I said, "I doubt CB meant to purposefully evoke Neo-Nazis." At the same time, it obviously provoked a number of people on this forum and, now that my memory is being jogged, it's not even the first time this has happened with the double lightning bolts. I remember some folks being squicked out by the KISS logo for similar reasons. Of course it was unintentional since at least half the band was Jewish but they still changed the logo when touring in Germany, Austria, Israel, and other countries where such imagery would def be objectional. Which, again, brings up the point that it is not unreasonable to discuss changing symbols to make the game more welcoming.
