I am trying to make a bakunin list that has a Lizard, but I am having a really hard time making one that cannot be done better in vanilla. This is what I have so far (note that this is also a valid vanilla list!) Jurisdictional Command of Bakunin ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 9 1 1 LIZARD MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 87) LIZARD PILOT Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. () CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) METEOR ZOND Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (1 | 21) ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6) REAKTION ZOND HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26) SALYUT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25) LUNOKHOD Heavy Shotgun, Heavy Flamethrower, D-Charges, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse. (0 | 25) TASKMASTER Lieutenant Red Fury, Pulzar, CrazyKoalas + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Heavy Pistol, DA CCW. (1 | 53) DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) 5.5 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army The general idea is that the Lizard alpha strikes turn one and clears a landing area for the Meteor. If all goes well, the two of them plus the killer hacker terrorize everyone from the flank. It seems like the Bakunin setup is just not geared toward supporting a TAG. Most of the bakunin features fall flat: Riot girl Haris is possible but probably too expensive Moira link costs even more and is slower/more order intensive If it was any other sectoral, a cheapo grande core link would be a no-brainer, but moderators are a pretty lousy defensive link with their 1.5 SWC BS10 MSR. The 0 SWC moderator LT is scary to take because you have the TAG instead of like four other dudes Three zeroes is possible, but three zeroes is often too many. Maybe take two zero BSG's that try to infiltrate on the other side of the board? Three sin-eaters would be unreasonable and in my experience always sucks Taskmaster duo almost seems workable??? I may pick up the new taskmaster and try it.
I would play something like this with Lizard + Meteor zond couple. Why bakunin is nice ? Because you have a link + 3 zeroes. Aint no smile ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 LIZARD MULTI HMG, Heavy Grenade Launcher / . (2.5 | 87) LIZARD PILOT Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. () MODERATOR MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) MODERATOR Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 11) MODERATOR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) LUNOKHOD Heavy Shotgun, Heavy Flamethrower, D-Charges, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse. (0 | 25) ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) GROUP 2 4 2 2 ZERO Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24) ZERO (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) METEOR ZOND Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (1 | 21) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 6) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
A spam list with TAG SpamTAG ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 7 3 2 ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) ZERO (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) SALYUT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) SALYUT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Assault Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6) WARCOR (Sixth Sense L1) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) GROUP 2 8 2 2 LIZARD MULTI HMG, Heavy Grenade Launcher / . (2.5 | 87) LIZARD PILOT Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. () ZERO (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) MODERATOR MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17) MODERATOR Spitfire / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 15) MODERATOR Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 11) MODERATOR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Assault Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6) 5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
I personally believe the Lizard and Meteor Zond work great together. But i would find a safe place to bring the Meteor on the side and spotlight/forward observe something. And then take the HGL Lizard and spec fire grenades on people. Although i say this and I actually feel the same way that you do... Anyway, i put this together the other day for a local game night. It doesn't have the EVO but you can use the Lt. Order on the custodier for guided jump. And between the deployable repeater, the pitcher and Zonds you can get a network up to hack whatever you want, however you want. Lizard ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 LIZARD MULTI HMG, Heavy Grenade Launcher / . (2.5 | 87) LIZARD PILOT Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. () CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) MODERATOR Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 13) MODERATOR Spitfire / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 15) MODERATOR Spitfire / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 15) MODERATOR Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 11) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) REVEREND CUSTODIER Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 34) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) GROUP 2 3 3 3 METEOR ZOND Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (1 | 21) ZERO (Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19) ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
Unless you're going to bring a link team or take advantage of increased AVA, there's no reason to go Bakunin instead of vanilla when making a Lizard list. As perseus said, the advantage of a Bakunin Lizard list is a core link of Moderators with some snipers on overwatch and three Zeros. If you bring DepRep Zeros, you can cheaply set up a midfield repeater net that will allow Zoe to spotlight targets for your Lizard's HGL. That said, you may be able to make a better Lizard list in vanilla just from the wider unit selection.
I want to try this HGL Lizard list this weekend: Lizzie ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 LIZARD MULTI HMG, Heavy Grenade Launcher / . (2.5 | 87) LIZARD PILOT Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. () MODERATOR MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17) MODERATOR MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17) MODERATOR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) ZERO (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19) ZOE & PI-WELL . (0 | 47) ZOE (Hacking Device. UPGRADE: Stop!) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28) PI-WELL Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 19) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) GROUP 2 3 1 1 DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6) REVEREND CUSTODIER Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 32) ZERO (Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Since I'm quite proficient in stealing TAGs I lack the experience in building lists comprising TAGs, what are your thoughts?
Oh I’ve ben down this road. The spec thing can also be done from a mod link with lgl and a lone moira with EM grenade launcher. Add in a Vertigo zond and you also have some redundancy/options.
Yeah, it turned out that Lizzie couldn't even survive it's first ARO... 87 points in the gutter. Overall my dice made that game an uphill battle which I finally lost - for the first time whilst playing as intended with a TAG.
Basically my dice rolled total crap and my opponent's dice were quite good. This with Sniper and Missile Launcer Ghulams - add a Spitfire wielding Asawira and well, no chance :D Something similar did happen today against JSA with a different Lizzie (HFT) list but this time I only lost by four VP! In conclusion I lost 100% of the games with a TAG in a mission made for TAGs (Show of Force) whilst I never lost that same mission without a TAG.
Oh good. I’m working on my getting TAG list painted so I will hopefully know your “joy” in a month or two.
Well, I should play more games with the Lizard then I'll find out if I'm either just untrained in using it or If I'm cursed... right now I'm tending to the latter :sweatsmile:
While I wait I find myself reading & re-reading Daboarder’s TAG thread in Panoceania territory. I have been out of the game for more than a year but before my hiatus I was using Scarface in QK with great success. But Scarface was 57 or so points and much more expendable. So I know I will have to learn more caution.
Update with what I settled on: Jurisdictional Command of Bakunin ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 LIZARD MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 87) LIZARD PILOT Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. () MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) MODERATOR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) ZOE & PI-WELL . (0 | 47) ZOE (Hacking Device. UPGRADE: Stop!) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28) PI-WELL Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 19) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) ZERO (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19) PROWLER Spitfire, D-Charges / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 36) RIOT GRRL Boarding Shotgun, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) RIOT GRRL Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 33) RIOT GRRL (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Blitzen, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army I have run this list four or five times now and I enjoy it. I hold the lizard as reserve and put it on the extreme flank then force it forward, putting it into suppression near their deployment zone, but where they can't quite get at it. Then, when they pull the formation out of line, the prowler comes out and shreds them. Typically something bad happens to the TAG, but then the Riot Grrls and Pi-well go win the game.It's a very robust list and my only regret is that the zero can't really be a killer hacker... I want to drop the spec op Riot to a BSG but I can't stomach it.
So I'm playing around with a list idea for Deadly Dance and possibly Looting & Sabotaging (3rd mission is Biotechvore, so I might use that list for L&S) and am just not quite happy with it. The thought is a good amount of EM options to stall opponent TAGS and make them even more easy to take out while giving me enough options to just take the field if they go TAGless. Jurisdictional Command of Bakunin ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 7 1 1 LIZARD MULTI HMG, Heavy Grenade Launcher / . (2.5 | 87) LIZARD PILOT Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. () CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) ZERO (Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19) ZERO Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6) REVEREND CUSTODIER Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 33) GROUP 2 6 BRAN DO CASTRO (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle + E/Mitter / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 37) MODERATOR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) MODERATOR MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) MODERATOR Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 13) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Any thoughts would be awesome.
If you're taking the HGL, you want ten orders in that group for spec fire nonsense. I would be more likely to put it in a group with my defensive cheerleader link and put the utility stuff in group 2.
This.... unless there's a really important reason why it makes more sense not to. Also, don't ever take 1 Morlock. Always take 2: the mutual support is huge for keeping them alive. Read @Daboader 's CHA Primer for demonstrations. Bran and the Lizard have significant overlap: both eliminate opponents troops in hard to reach places / are alpha strike piece. I don't think the redundancy is necessary. I think you'd get more value out of replacing Bran and the Clockmaker with Zoe + Pi-well. This will also improve your ability to deal with Camo (which otherwise isn't great). Also, never not take the Pitcher Custodier (if you're taking a Custodier). Pitcher's scare the bejesus out of people who run TAGs. I'd run your list more like this: Jurisdictional Command of Bakunin ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 5 2 2 TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 6) REVEREND CUSTODIER Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 34) ZOE & PI-WELL . (0 | 47) ZOE (Hacking Device. UPGRADE: Stop!) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28) PI-WELL Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 19) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) GROUP 2 8 ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) ZERO (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) LIZARD MULTI HMG, Heavy Grenade Launcher / . (2.5 | 87) LIZARD PILOT Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. () MODERATOR MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17) MODERATOR Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 10) MODERATOR Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 13) MODERATOR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army By eliminating Bran I've strengthened your hacking game, and given you a Sensor for dealing with Camo / TO threats (which otherwise can be difficult for Lizards). I also swap out your Zeros: by adding 2 pitchers, the EMauler Zero became less important and by adding Zoe, the lack of a KHD becomes a bigger issue. I've left it as a 5/8 split to give you a chunk of orders to spend on your specialists: either to push buttons, or to get Spotlight / FO off you enhance your Lizards effectiveness. It's a way to get the most out of the 6-odd orders you'll have to spend on the Lizard: rather than just increasing the number of orders. There's a couple of ways you can do this very efficiently: but basically it comes down to making the most out of your Move+Hack/FO to advance your specialists up the board while dropping White Noise/Spotlight/FOs etc. I'd use that list on a mission that is relatively button pushing heavy: 5 orders on a Specialist like Pi-well is a breeze for pushing objectives, and the Lizard will allow you to delete specific enemy specialists / capabilities. You're mainly going to be spending Command Tokens on flipping Zoe/Pi/Custodier into the main combat group on T2/3; so hold some back for that purpose. Edit: I may have missed the brief on Looting and Sabotaging / Deadly dance. BTW for Looting and Sabotaging, just run 2-3 Chimeras. They're stupid good at attacking the Objective.
I like this. It makes me look at my lists in the other direction than I was initially. One for Dance (Lizard) and the other for Biotech and L&S (Chimera's, sadly I only have one set right now, and lots of Morlocks.) I think I'll swap out the Minelayer for the DepRep Zero though. The Repeater and E/Mauler seem to fit better for that mission. Thanks
Off Topic: Spoiler Yeah, Chimera for Biotech is great 10" Move with it's own 2 orders, and Smoke to help other troops get out. AND your opponent spends his turn running TOWARDS your death machine. But seriously, for L&S borrow a friend's Uberfalls. Either it's B4 Phys 16 DA or it's 3 x Phys 13 DA depending on your TO's view of G-Sync mods vs the objective. This means that a single Uberfall is a priority target, whereas 2 makes their life more difficult. For BTV, this would be painful to deal with, and would work nicely as a smoke generator to allow you to get your troops out of the BTV Zone: Jurisdictional Command of Bakunin ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 4 4 BAKUNIN ÜBERFALLKOMMANDO . (0 | 23) CHIMERA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Viral CCW. (0 | 20) x3 PUPNIK DA CCW. (0 | 3) BAKUNIN ÜBERFALLKOMMANDO . (0 | 23) CHIMERA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Viral CCW. (0 | 20) x3 PUPNIK DA CCW. (0 | 3) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 6) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 6) 0 SWC | 58 Points Open in Infinity Army I'm not entirely certain how I'd build the rest of the list, but with 240pts you've still got room for a link, TM Lt (useful for both BTV and L&S) and Zeros (not as useful for BTV but they're not awful).
