Looking at my current ISS lists, I am feeling like I might be better off playing vanilla Yu Jing. Basically, the units I like are Hsien, Su Juan, Ninja and sophotect. I am also partial to the CSUs. I typically run the Kuang Shi in a link team , and I am not interested in running 4 more in group 2. It is cumbersome to manage 8 kuang shi, 4 being impetuous impetuous. so my main question would be, do you think it’s worth playing ISS over Vanilla Yu Jing just for a Kuang Shi link, sophotect and some CSUs? i do also like the crane + CG link but I feel the su jian or hsien are better. But I could just as well use both in vanilla.. Thoughts on this would be appreciated. This could also extend into a general discussion of the Kuang Shi link.
I almost never link the Kuang Shi's. The Crane link, Hsien Harris and Wu Ming link are the most frequently used links I run (in that order). Then you sprinkle said links with very cheap attack pieces like the Rui Shi and Dakini HMG. The Sophotech and her 6-4 MOV have won me many games and even tournaments alone, so ISS is definitely a good faction for those reasons. With the new units from both IA (Mowang and Daoying) and from White Banner, ISS is no longer a default better competitive option than it's Vanilla counterpart, it remains strong nonetheless.
Well... let’s see... First up, we need to talk about smoke. Monks and CGs are the only Smoke Providers in Vanilla Yu Jing (If I remember correctly that is). Monks are awesome, I ain’t gonna lie, they are amazing at their job which is lobbing smoke for your forces, you should try them out if you’re going Vanilla Yu Jing. In Vanilla Yu Jing the CG smoke Launcher is your Back Up smoke and is quite good at her job on her own of course. So what does ISS do for these guys? Monks are out the door, enabling you to bring even more Kuang Shi. The Kuang Shi Linkteam is a useful tool however and shouldn’t be underestimated, linked, The Kuang Shi are probably the BEST DZ Zone option, they hace chain rifles and pistols sure, along with SSL2 this makes them quite nasty at protecting Sophie or whatever it is you need to keep out of harms way. Second Option for this link is, it allows the CG to be doubly good at her job, 2 smoke templates, where you want them, at 17’s, nothing is more reliable than this Link to lay down smoke and you will miss it in Vanilla Yu Jing. The Third use for this Linkteam is fireteam and Skirmisher crackers, nasty Link Team? Just send kuang shi’s at em, 2 chain rifles at a time with the possibility of Dogged or Explode are quite good at breaking fireteams. If you smoke em, you can do Intuitive attacks with your Kuang Shi, taking advantage of their Dogged and Cover to discover/kill camo markers. A Neat trick ISS has for the Kuang Shi, is to deploy them linked up to cancel impetuous Phase, and then break said link. What else can ISS do with Kuang Shi Linkteams... Biolocator, remember how we are evaluating the possibilities open to ISS with this link, you can of course advance these guys into ZOC of an enemy Hacker, and activate Biolocator to create a temporary Repeater for your Ninja, or Kan Ren to hack into, not the greatest use but it can come in handy. Being able to move them at your pace really helps to take advantage of these opportunities. Hsien Haris, Bao (if that’s your thing) and Rui Shi love the smoke, and the Crane link likes it since it allows it to move through lanes otherwise too dangerous for them. Rui Shi, loves Daoying LT hacker which is in Vanilla. So the bottom word is, is the possibility of using my Kuang Shi as the most reliable smoke Lobbing Machine, Fireteam breaker and Skirmisher Apocalypse better than the possibility of Bringing in Better Camo, ARO, AD:Combat Jump, and Some other more eclectic(effective, different) HI choices? because that’s the difference.
Non-kamikaze, regular and accurate smoke is pretty valuable. If I don't play the Crane + henchmens fireteam, I often link my handler with 2 kuang-shis just for the added burst. As for reasons to play ISS over vanilla, they have access to a bunch of very good mercs like the CSUs, ABHs and Aleph REMs in the 10-20pts range. Together with AVA8 kuang-shi and linked CGs it allows ISS to casualy field 2 groups full of regular order with very cost effective units alongside the more elite ones, in a much more extreme fashion than vanilla does and with fireteam efficiency to boot.
Running 8 Kuang Shi is the absolute privilege of running IS. Don't manage the extra 4, let them cut loose! The only thing to worry about is them attracting templates onto things you care aboue with their impetuous movement. If I am running a Su Jian and Sophotect there isn't room for a CG link, so I'll link 4 with the controller for the base defense potential and to keep the orders safer.
Imperial Service ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 4 HSIEN Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (+1 | 57) SÙ-JIÀN Spitfire, Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 59) SÙ-JIÀN Spitfire, Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 59) SÙ-JIÀN Spitfire, Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 59) CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29) 6.5 SWC | 296 Points Open in Infinity Army What's the issue again?
It depends on your play style of ISS, I suppose. Strictly speaking about KS in ISS Vs Vanilla. The advantage of having them possibly form a fireteam gives you ability to use them as a battery, whilst in Vanilla they'll likely run wild and die over the course of the game. That's the main difference, from a strictly KS focused perspective (plus super smoke launcher as mentioned by all above obv.) However, I guess I'd push to ask you to look at your ISS lists and ask yourself, if they are all such that they could probably be played in Vanilla, are you fully exploring the sectorial? What have you maybe not tried or failed to see that is ubique
Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I may have to take the Bao off the bench to try their core link since my regular opponent bought the Steel Phalanx army box last month. Situational units, time to shine!
Better off just bringing a Hsien. Bao only have ARO weapon options and they fucking suck at dealing with ASS, they have eclipse grenades for a reason. They'll just bypass the shitty Bao and ignore them, who also lack the equipment to take the fight to the Myrmidons. Basically you'll wind up with an overly expensive link of retards you tasked with doing one job that they won't perform.
Yes, Bao are terrible, ignore them completely. A single Hsien shoots better than an entire core of Bao and will cost you half the points.
Obviously the Hsien is better. It is better than 95% of units in infinity. The point is finding a reason to play ISS over vanilla lol. I AM TRYING TO MAKE THIS WORK OK?
Consider the Lu Duan. With Marksmenship, if they are in cover you'd be hitting at same odds as if you had msv 2. Obviously one smoke is down, the game changes. However you then have your heavy flamer. Even better pair this up with a KS. If they put down smoke, to hide in. Run KS near smoke, turn on biolocator and hit it with your flame template, clipping the dudes in the smoke, who dodge on -3 Additionally madtraps, I don't know if SAA have anything cheap that they like to throw away to set off mad-traps. Glhf
If you want a reason to play ISS over vanilla just picking a link that isn't shite is an easy option. Go play a Wu Ming core, they're a perfectly fine HI pain train. If you want to get fancy start by picking a Su Jian, fill his combat group with a Celestial Guard and 8 Kuang Shi, then realise you've still got like 200 points to fill out a second combat group.
Here is another point worthy of discussion. I've tried it out and my conclusion is simply that the Zhanying are deadweight, and not worth the +1 Burst to the Hsien. I like to run the HMG so the Zhanying just kind of sit back and don't really do much. Maybe if the haris is done with the multi rifle it could be better, but I'm still doubtful of the Zhanying overall as a unit. I think they are hurting you more than helping.
Zhanying give you Sensor to suss out markers without LoF, allowing you to avoid potentially dangerous retaliation. They give you nimbus grenades to completely gut any defensive fireteam bonuses that might get in your way. And then you can take either the hacker for button pushing, or mad traps for area denial. If you just view the haris as a vehicle to get a +1B bonus, they're incredibly overcosted. But their role is to provide a huge level of utility for the Hsien while enhancing order efficiency of doing it all. And if you don't want to march him in with a haris, he does just fine solo as well. But you can instead support him with a bunch of other great fireteam options. Despite showing its age (we could use some more well developed haris and wildcard options), ISS is still one of the most well designed sectorials in the game, giving you a wide breadth of tools to use without strictly relying on stacking fireteam bonuses to do all the heavy lifting. They have enough options and novel unit combinations that you can approach them from many different angles. For ISS, fireteams are a potent tool in the box, but not an absolute necessity.
Using nimbus to trade 20% of your burst for 50% of someone else's is a useful tool if you have orders to spare. Very tempting vs linked missiles and Fuerbachs. The hacker lets the link do objectives, her sixth sense lets her wallhack and you need a hacker to enrol the Rui Shi or Husongs you likely have. Mad Traps unlock the Hsien trick if you are so inclined.
I mean.... No one mentions this as it is kinda' frowned upon... but if you use the Hsien Harris + Madtraps, put down smoke first, then you can force normal rolls or force the enemy to dodge against basically any single non-MSV2 ARO piece in the game by activating the link and having the Mad Traps as the only visible thing the ARO piece can see (while your Hsien is in smoke), he can only declare BS Attack against the Madtrap or Dodge. That's much better than the +1 B, even if that isn't a tactic that will win you any friends.
