Repeaters, holoprojector, hacking, stealth and coordinated orders, all in one. Come get some!

As long as the Kanren only performs short movement skills that do not require an ARO or Cautious Move, the Kanren will not trigger AROs from enemy hackers UNLESS they have Sixth Sense (1 or 2). Keep in mind that hackers in a 4+ member fireteam have SSL2.

You should let your opponent know they all have a hacking device (they are not Hackable, technically). They're in the position of either choosing a target to hack (which might be a holoecho, and thus expose themselves to a potential normal hack from the real Kanren) or holding against the holo markers, in which case if you move-move or whatever they will lose their ARO entirely.

Yes, but keep in mind that hackers with sixth sense will not fall for this trick.

No. As per the FAQ, once you're in the hacking area of an enemy as a holoprojected unit, they know the "real" Hackable (or presence of a hacking device) of the model hiding under the holoprojector.

 

I thought the intent was that holo couldn't protect you from hacking. In other words, you would immediately know which was the real trooper because that would be the only one that could be hacked.

 

The intent is that Holo1 can't be used to confuse who's targeting what with hacking attacks, as I understand it. Remember, you can hold your action vs. Holo2, but not Holo1.

 

Sorry to necro this but wanted to clarify an interaction.

In a recent game I had a Tian Gou KHD using Holo 1 pretend to be a HI. On running into an opponent's repeater ZoC hacking ensued and we couldn't figure out the right way to resolve.

The way we resolved it was that the unit declared it had a hacking device which meant the opponent didn't bother declaring an ARO vs an HI, instead rightly choosing an anti-hacker program.

Is this correct and as intended?

(As a sidenote, the hacker ended up killing my KHD then isolating and Overlording the TAG the Tian Gou was supposed to clear the way for! Best laid plans...)

 

As soon as the Tian Gou moves into what both players judge to be the Repeater's ZoC and where your opponent has a confirmable Hacker, you need to let them know which type of hacking device the Tian Gou has, as of July last year. (Edit: but only if your opponent has a Hacker who can make use of the Repeater)

N3 Frequently Asked Question FAQ Version: 1.7, Jul 2019
Q: How do Holoprojectors interact with Hacking?
A: In Holoprojector L1 state the Hackable Characteristic and any Hacking Devices the trooper has are considered Open Information when the trooper is inside the opponent’s Hacking Area.
Related Pages: Hacking Area, Holoprojector, Open and Private Information

 

The really hairy interaction is if BOTH hackers are concealed. Then it's a chicken and egg problem... who gives up their information first not knowing that that particular information is relevant to the situation?

 

Since the last time that this situation has been mentioned on the forum, I've come up with this theoretical solution not involving a computer:

Player A gets two tokens. One is made of paper, with a led insert for "No Hacker". The other is paper with a steel insert for "Hacker"
Player B gets two tokens. One is made of paper, with a led insert for "No Hacker." The other is paper with a magnet inside it for "Hacker".
(The tokens probably need to be as identical as possible from the outside. The players would need their own magnets to tell them apart...)

If the tokens stick together (magnet and steel), then the players know they both have hackers. If they don't stick together, you don't have to worry about it.

 

That sounds excessively complicated for a problem which is probably easiest to solve rules-wise by simply stating that only public information hackers can identify other hackers.
Very clever, inventive and cool, but complicated.

 

who tells first?

the one "moving" inside hacking area (active player). Then the reactive player should tell him his AROs (unless sixth sense and so), and if the active has a hacking device, then the reactive player should also tell back all that could be hackable, and other hacking devices that were not public before and became public at that moment.

why? before entering the hacking area, none of both players could have access to that info, so the "move" is the trigger. And the reactive player cannot declare its ARO if he has not the info. The same way, the active player should have access to the enemys hackers the moment he can declare his second short order.

 

Regarding hacking area, when can you measure it?

a) anytime you want
b) when someone declares an order
c) when someone possessing a hacking device declares an order
d) when someone with hackable trait declares an order

Obviously there is a benefit for not measuring it and measuring it.

 

e) after all skills have been declared at "7. Resolution: Players take measurements, determine MODs, and make Rolls."

It could be argued that declaring Hackable Trait or Hacking Device won't happen until that step.

 

So active and reactive player can/must declare hacking attacks against possibly illegal targets?

 

Depends on and I've opened myself up to doubt, but that's basically how it worked prior to HSN3 if memory serves and it wasn't quite as horrible as it sounds.
Just remember that disclosing hackable status is unique to Holoprojectors and is not something Camouflage and Hiding needs worry about.

 

there is a rules gap in there. Measurement is done at the resolution part of the order, but knowing if its hackable should be done as soon as it effectivelly enters the hacking area. But this is a timming problem that has been all N3. I remember that there was a moment in previous editions where ZoC could be measured anytime, but that is not possible now.

 

There were a few months during N3 when an FAQ was made that allowed you to measure ZoC to determine whether you had an ARO to declare or not prior to declaring it. I believe it was 2 or 3 years ago and it was a huge and controversial rule change.

 

Doesn’t seem any worse than “Could you please turn around while I figure out my hidden deployment choices.”

In retrospect, I over complicated it. Both players should be able to use the same pair of tokens (each player gets a token with a magnet and a token without).

Otherwise, to be honest the game still has a lot of situations left over from 2nd edition where both players have secret info and you need a third party (either a third person, a simple computer program/spreadsheet, or a set of magnetic tokens) to find out an answer without spoiling someone’s secret.

 

Oh... you meant lead (Pb), I thought you meant a contraption with a magnet-activated light emitting diode. Yeah, making something with a couple of magnets is a lot less overhead, but still kind of a bit more than you would be expected to have when interpreting the rules, particularly not when there's very little to be gained from the rules bending over backwards to accommodate this particular rule (IMO).

 

Active player executes a Coordinated Order. Heavy Infantry trooper A moves into repeater area, while trooper B moves in the (out-of-ZoC) backside of the target trooper C.

In reality, trooper B is non-hackable trooper that uses holoprojector. Trooper C also uses a holoprojector and is a Hacker. Trooper C also has 6th Sense.

The active player is trying to provoke a hacking ARO out of trooper C so that trooper B can shoot him without f2f roll.

Can reactive player choose not to declare an ARO during 1st part of the order by declaring something like ”trooper C doesn’t get an ARO”?

 

No. Because in that situation Active player says "BTW this troop is hackable by Claw programs so if it's inside ZOC of that Hacker it'll generate an ARO at Step 4 of the Order".