The definite N4 Comments, Suggestions, Ideas, wishlist's and Bugs that need fixing thread

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. micawber

    micawber Junkship Jockey

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    Since I can only really play on TTS at the moment (dunno if you can relate :P ) and N4 is drawing near it's becoming less and less common for me beeing bothered by current rules issues since they might just resolve themselves very soon.

    I can see CB splitting modifiers between intuitive and visual ones. Sixth Sense would really only work against mods by surprise shot/attack, beeing shot without seeing the shooter and to make it more interesting maybe give a positive modifier to intuitive attack. I should not ignore all visual modifiers too. Just because your reflexes tell you to jerk out of the way doesn't spontaniously give you infrared vision to see through smoke.

    Oh and about that smoke - I hope they will make it a little less black and white. Let MSV1 see through it but with a modifier.

    Some units could even get completely non-visual dependent senses. Like a whole alien race that double their ZoC (vibration sense, echolocation etc.) but lack any long range weaponry cuz their visual senses are bad or non-existent. Would've actually fitted Helots for example. Probably tough to balance though.
     
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  2. SpectralOwl

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    It's worth noting that this means that the number of specific counters that must be included in the two tournament lists is rising, which is starting to get restrictive. I haven't heard anyone use the "It's not your list..." catchphrase in a year, because it's stopped being anything close to true with the number of different types of threats an opponent will regularly put on the board.
     
  3. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    that's a problem arising little by little in the game. Some factions don't have enought of those tools for all the problems they can face, and placing "two" for a given treat, means loosing options against another one.
     
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  4. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    EVACUATION DEVICES ARE TERRIBLE AND NEED TO BE FIXED.

    Ideally now, but N4 will do.

    Evacuation device should:
    A) Be optional
    B) Prevent wounds from overflowing from the TAG itself to the operator.


    As it stands they are too fragile. Furthermore, trying to fix them might permanently jack-in-the-box them. I've suggested that failed engineer, doctor and paramedic rolls should not inflict damage previously in the thread.

    The presently useless Anaconda would get a new lease on life if it was guaranteed to get that last wound on the table even when things go real bad, it would give them an interesting way to be durable in a different way to normal 3W, high ARM TAGs.
     
  5. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I don't mind EDs being automatic. Wounds overflowing is the normal process, so I wouldn't chance that.

    Honestly, I'd just give all Operator TAGs a steep discount, buff the Operators to be BS13 and give them Tac Awareness. A major part of the issue is how awful the Operators are once they come out. This means it doesn't feel like you get a relatively squishy TAG with upsides, but rather just a very shit TAG.

    Annie also needs to be BS14: I know she's an old girl, but her Move and big SIL show that off effectively.
     
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  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Just give them the Symbiont Armour treatment and conveniently ignore that there's a decently competent Operator in there when it comes to pricing. This should drop them in points by a tiny bit over 5, by a rough guesstimate - and/or perhaps a bit more preferable, if the Operator survives don't destroy the TAG when used and allow them to jump back in if the TAG gets repaired.

    Edit: Hell, make ED L1 standard gear for Piloted TAGs and make them optional is also not a bad change to make. Of course, that also means they'd need to redress the pilot balance where one or two of them are terrible and one or two of them are probably a bit too good for the 0 points they cost.
     
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  7. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    they got the bad part of the TacAwa update...got the points up, but not the full use of it. That arbitrary "you get it for free, you pay" part of the update hitted them harder than to the other cheap ones. Also, not giving S6 to anaconda when n3 came, while giving it (because potato reasons) to better TAGs was just a nasty move

    They need to be addressed directly and deeper than other TAGs. But I'm not sure that taking out the would swap is a good idea. That could create frustrant moments as the simbionts did (not as heavy). Weapon options, cost and useful skills but with the correct cost should work
     
  8. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    For it to not be your list, you should be able to make an effective plan against an unexpected element in your opponent's force during gameplay.

    Their squadron members are also combat veterans. Seems fair to me. Iguana gets 14.
     
  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    From a lore perspective the difference between BS 13, 14, and 15 isn't as much the individual skill or veterancy of the shooter, but the quality of the targeting computer, so if the Annie is an old TAG and the Iguana is a newer TAG, it can make perfect sense that the Annie has lower BS even if the individual pilots are more competent.
    Basically, it's only about skill for Ariadna, and even Ariadna have some pretty nifty personal targeting computers that we don't have in current day and age.
     
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  10. Ceilican

    Ceilican Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I'd give Annie Total Immunity. She's a huge chunk of metal and slow as molasses, so give her some benefit from it. Keep her 2 wounds, though.

    Also, only taking one wound a time would make sure the Operator gets to eject safely.
     
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  11. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    It's an abstraction of both. Iguana is also a refitted TAG.
     
  12. Xeurian

    Xeurian Well-Known Member

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    Naw, if you're buffing Doctor I'll take a Doctor +6 thanks : ).

    And, yes, that means auto success!

    With folks looking at Engineering/Doctor Checks failing not killing things, how about treating it similarly to Discover and making it so that it just means you can't make further attempts for the remainder of the turn with that particular Engineer/Doctor on that particular target?
     
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  13. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    That would at least still be a buff to manned tags, you can try to top them off without risk.
     
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  14. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    It was discussed on page 105, seems like it is broadly supported. I hope it goes ahead.

    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threa...need-fixing-thread.34550/page-105#post-330991
     
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  15. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    It's also a buff to Elite Infantry and high-lethality weapons, particularly if you also nerf the bejesus out of Shock.
     
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  16. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Removing the MML2 program would do this almost single handedly, then just reduce the amount of SMMRs and RFs that are being handed out.

    Shock is a useful tool to have and is more or less fine in it's current iteration the main problem is that it is on every other model out there at no appreciable cost.
     
  17. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Reducing availability is one way to "nerf the bejesus out of Shock".

    MML2 is fine. MML1 is not, because Shock is not fine. Removing MML1 from Assisted Fire is a reasonable solution.

    My preferred solution is just make Shock:
    "any Trooper that takes a Wound/Structure from Shock and goes Unconscious in the same Order can not benefit from the V:Dogged or V:NWI skills". And then just remove Shock Immunity in its entirety.

    Do this in combination with the buff to DRs/Engineers that was discussed.
     
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  18. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    nerfing shock would bring back the moments where NWI was more like cheaper 2W. So if shock (which is not so common as some say, more like is the option used directly because non-shock is less efficient), but NWI is not, then we will see again rants about the cheapness of NWI in some models.

    But all of that is a perception matter. If a player has 1 dude with shock, and 9 without it, if he can, we will use the shock dude against the NWI enemy trooper. If that happens in more than half of their games, the enemy player will think "there is too much shock", ignoring the fact that there was only 1 dude of 10, just that the enemy is using it on purpose because is a better option. Maybe CB could tone down the avaiability of shock, but taking out MML2 on bots, is, for some, taking out shock directly
     
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  19. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Shock's issue isn't how it affects V:Dogged and V:NWI it's how it affects elite 1W models.

    Which is why keeping only the "V:NWI or V:Dogged can't be used during an Order that a figure loses a Wound/Structure from a Shock attack" but losing the "causes single wound models to go straight to dead" would be my preferred solution.
     
  20. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    yes, I know that is another issue, but shock came in the game to deal with NWI, which, since shock became avaiable to most factions (before was almost non-existant apart from mines and koalas), NWI stopped to beign as harrasing as it was before.
     
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