Fair. I think my internal example was an Irmandhino since they're the Smokers I played against most recently. Still, I don't think your example is right- a Ninja's PH12, should give them a 60% chance to outright pass and then another ~20% to fail Dodge, pass ARM. Were you checking over two orders to get that figure?
Nope. One order against a Heavy Flamer. Dodge requires LOF which means the Ninja is dodging at effective PH 6 due to Poor Visibility. Under current rules they dodge templates from MSV2 through smoke at 12. (Yu Jing melee units has a tendency to have PH 10-12 while other factions tend to be PH 13 which does affect things on a faction basis)
Did not know that fact about Visibility Zones affecting Dodge. That explains a lot, I retract my suggestion. Still want to find a way to make melee work without Smoke though, it would be a big help to every CC guy ever that wasn't classed Warband.
but dodge is not affected by visibility mods, that's why most ARO against smoke-combo are a normal dodge instead of a shot
I checked the relevant rules, turns out Low and Poor Vis actually do affect Dodge. Zero Visibility Zone, confusingly, actually has a clause that specifically excludes Dodge from its disadvantages. Terrain rules in this game are weird.
I see what you did there, and I'll give you that much I guess my opinion is that I think the effect of smoke is overrated. (edit: in conjunction with MSV2)
I think smoke effect is not overrated. For some factions is an extra that can deal a lot of dammage well used, for some others is a "needed tool" to stand on par with others. And from the enemy perspective, smoke is a nuisance, or a devastating tool depending if they have enough tools or not to deal with it. MSV, smoke, fireteams, stealth and some other skills are tight linked into this, and changing only smoke/SSL2 can deal a big impact in how the other parts affect the game
Don't worry, you're not alone. I've had to show people that FAQ entry in like 1 in 3 games since starting Spiral Corps. It's one of the things that has always made Makauls flamers really gross in vanilla Tohaa though -- Nimbus+ and a Heavy Flamethrower is a death sentence.
This was never something I actually put in practice and should probably be in the rules forum instead, but since we're here - is there any reason why you can't declare a change facing against a model in your LOF, provided they were also in ZOC? As an ARO that doesn't require LOF, it would only suffer the -3 native to the skill, rather than the -6 from the Nimbus.
You can declare Change Facing, yes. Just keep in mind that if the dodging trooper is inside the low/poor visibility zone, the MOD is applied regardless and declaring Change Facing will be worse. (No, don't ask me how that works, just check the below link out) https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/can-i-declare-change-facing-with-lof.36009/#post-313061
I think the way visibility modifiers are applied to dodge rolls is inconsistent and confusing, and I hope that gets cleaned up some. With LoF, Low Visibility: -3 With LoF, Poor Visibility: -6 With LoF, Zero Visibility: no modifier No LoF, Template: -3 No LoF, no template: no ARO
Smoke hasn't felt very oppressive for me because I need to spend regular orders to drop it and can easily miss one to need another order due to being unlinked (unless I take the Jaguar haris). My main problem with smoke has been getting it down on free orders, which feels very powerful when I dip my toes in a faction with it.
Overall impetuous is too powerful of an effect, and it becomes quite egregious on both cheap warbands and more expensive models like McMurrough. I hope N4 changes things to reflect this, but there's no sign of that.
That's less an issue with Smoke an more an issue with Impetuous. I think everyone agrees that the pricing and rules for Impetuous need a look at. The fact it doesn't seem to appear in Code One seems to suggest CB gets that. Dodge and Kinematics on the active turn (which I think is great) does however represent a significant nerf to Deployables. I'm curious how this will be balanced considering how important Deployables are for many faction's defences.
I think they're not in C1 only to remove an additional area of complexity, but I too hope that it'll be more balanced in N4. Especially when it comes to Impetous+fireteams. I don't get this part. Why would it be a nerf?
