sorry, I just didn't want for this to become "another thread" like happened in other ones good points: Hollowmen core, specially in limited insertion. Securitate core, kriza duo and the characters. Almost everything else is the same in vainilla or even better weak points (not all of them): weak against warbands (not much tools, only jammers or more expensive troops). Bad fireteam dessign: Grenzers fireteams are not worth at all. Interventors are mostly forced to go out (so no SSL2 for them). Kriza duo is better than haris (the worst haris in the game), no wildcats, and the characters work better alone than in any fireteam. Is an elite and expensive sectorial with no help to fix that, suposedly heavy on remotes, but with the same or less avaiability for remotes than other sectorials where, CB told us expresedly, were not into remotes (that was nasty, Bostria). But is an elite with not so elite profiles All good options can work the same in vainilla, but they will have better support. It is the only sectorial in the game that doesn't have both MSV2 AND cheap smoke (TJC has smoke, but it is not a cheap). An infowar sectorial with only cyberwar and almost no other infowar tools. And some limitations that I think were put in because they were affraid for TJC to be too OP (pupets cannot get supportware, the no-ARO for the master, no sec+interventor link even if in the lore they work side by side, an so on) no leadership rules, not one of the new ones (that was to be espected), but the other factions are little by little getting full auto. Not only Chain of Command, but all other new rules seem banned to us. I play it, is fun (is the best thing of it, at least, has options during the game, you can do a lot of things, specially with HM), but is not a top tier sectorial, but well, none of ours is, so don't worry. When you make a few lists and play a few games will take your own conclusions.
Heh, @Armihaul I promise I won't try to turn this thread into "another thread" like the one's you reference. I don't outright reject people's opinions that I don't agree with, but I do confront unsupported or inaccurate negativity by sharing my subjective experiences. I don't agree with all of your weak points, but I do understand where you are coming from and even agree with a few. TJC is a challenging sectorial to play. If that makes it something less than a top tier sectorial, then fine; I wouldn't play them if the perception was they are easy to play or OP. I will concede to your point that it does feel like CB limited TJC in the context of what the units could do in Vanilla Nomads. Some of those limitations do seem unnecessary in light of what other sectorials can do. I agree they are fun to play and that players should draw their own conclusions about how good they are relative to other factions. Personally I find they can hang with the factions that are considered "the best" in a competitive meta.
Well, I don't think is "mid tier" because is challenging (vainilla nomads in the firsts ITS were top tier but far from the no-brain that were the top lieutenants autoplay). I think it is because it has too many weak points to compensate. Maybe the problem is not TJC, but other sectorials out there that have it easier.
I can't promise Grenzers will be fixed but some parts of them are going to change. MI, the value of MSV1, etc. will all be modified to make them be reevaluated. No one can know how useful they'll be in N4 or a year in to N4
FWIW I love missle launchers. They can be devastating when leveraged well. They are admittidly saddled with poor range bands if you love to cover your board with lots of LoF blocking terrain as can be common. If you're meta deliberatly tries to include long an short fire lanes, and espeically include things like saturation zones as part of the terrain, you'll find that MLs have to potential to get a lot of work done.
In the defense of the poor Grenzer, I can say that I found the profile with Sensor and Flamethrower usefull. Playing cheap REM with sniffer helps him using his Sensor without wasting order and the flamethrower makes him usefull as a defense piece. But new Kovac is actually cheaper and do the same things.
We tend to have all of these things (especially sat zones, so many sat zones) but even then its thoroughly underwhelming, ever since they took out The Grid from ITS I've found little to no use for them. The main problem with their range bands is that even if you have a table spanning firelane there are far to many things that start in it's 0 range and can trivially get into it's -3 and put it down. Missing that 16 - 24 and 40-48 is really crippling, and the only ML that seems to get any work done is the hollowman.
I'm not saying the grenzer is bad by any means, I actually find the MSR grenzer to be an amazing piece in a fireteam especially when complimenting the feuerbach. FO sensor is also a solid profile though now only sees play when a liason officer is needed as Jelena does that role but better.
I've gotten a lot of mileage out of the Grenzer Spitfire and ML. Even though I haven't used it, I could see the same being true for the MSR. It's a shame though that it's always as a one off in a Securitate link. Would be nice if the Grenzer core made more sense to field.
I hope you are right. Yet, my bets are that other MI/MSV1 troopers will be checked more into than the grenzers and also, we have the linked stempler, which will do the same work in the hollowmen fireteam, but even cheaper. The only redeeming thing of the grenzer now is that is fordward observer yes, and when B talked about TJC, grenzers were going to be the "glue" for fireteams...but nothing, just can go into securitates fireteams. Is the same with all our MI
