This is a WiP. I might add new stuff, when I think of something worth mentioning or whe new details of N4 arrive. Input and discussion is appreciated. But please refrain from telling me, its to early for this thread. I know, but I want to write my thoughts on what we know so far down anyways. And maybe others would like too... It looks like N4 changes most HI to MOV 6-2, MI to MOV 4-4 allows a Dodge move in active turns, it also looks like that shotguns in general get two firing modes with a DTW which includes LSG, MA 2 give +3 for the user and -3 for the opponent in FTF and +1 DAM ont top, and Crits cause two ARM rolls. Lets start with Asawiras. MOV 6-2 is as good for them as for every other HI, but they benefit a bit more due to their role as an assault unit. On top of that, they are now pseudo 6-4 due to their Kinematika L2 and active turn Dodge movement. Most of the time it will be better to shoot, but if you want to get somewhere fast, dodging instead of moving or shooting can be quite viable. Quite nice imho. The only problem is, in mixed links, the Asawira will leave their comrades behind over time. The new MA L2 seems interesting and makes them by far better, than they are now, in CC against non CC units. The shotgun change doesnt benefit them much, they just can choose to target ARM instead of BTS now. The Crit change isnt the best in the world for them, because they dont have that much ARM and well one crit can bring them down now. Hopefully Regeneration is going to change in a more positive direction to cancel that out. Next one are the Lasiqs The change to MOV 4-4 is a big deal for them imho. Because when you want to utilize their C+ you are going to make a move-move more often than not. Definitely a incentive for me to use those guys even more. Daylami The LSG only profile got quite a bit more interesting as a DZ guard, because he can now chose between DTW and normal shotgun shots. The PF loadouts now also have that utility if they survive their PF AROs. Ghulam The shotgun change is helping them in their role as DZ guards, especially against camoed CC experts. Farzans and skirmishers in general The DTW on their shotguns gives them an option that might be useful in some circumstances, but overall they lose a lot. No more ignoring cover is bad, but now also every shotgun wielder can make an intuitive attack against them and even worse, they cant utilize their camo and Surprise Shot modfiers against shotgun wielders. Links with shotguns can now easily get rid of them in ARO. Fidays and CC specialists in genaral They really do not like the new shotgun rules. Instead of decreasing the shotgun wielders chance in FTF by -9 or -12 they get an auto hit now. Not good. That change is going to make the life for CC specialists even harder, if they do not get better CC rules in N4. The new Crit mechanic is also quite bad for them from the current POV, because they mostly have low PH. Maybe the new MA tables have something to help them out. Overall, the Crit change is hurting Haqq a bit more, because we mostly rely on light units and our Doctors will not have the chance to revive someone more often.
One good thing is our Armor 3 units will now have a 30% of tanking an HMG crit without taking damage. The way of Fidays will definitely need to be rethought as shotguns might no longer be the best option. It will be interesting times.
To be honest off topic, it would be the height of stupidity to have weapons suddenly change from C1 to N4. Yes, this is too early. :p
I don't know, I can see the logic in eliminating Impact Templates from the simpler game, but keeping them in the main one. But I can't say for sure which way CB will go with this.
Quoting myself: On the LSG...the Adepticon Video states "Shotguns" so i assume its going to be like that for all shotguns. But naturally, Bostria might have missed the memo of a change, the N4 rules are still not set in stone... True, you can now avoid damage altogether, but you dont have the guarantee that you only receive one wound against an ARO crit, and that was a big plus for two wounders to have. Its one more thing you have to consider now, before spending an order.
@emperorsaistone huh, I must've either missed or misunderstood that. Oh well, it remains to wait and see then.
Can I also add in that, if we are truly assuming HI to become standardized at 6-2 and MI at 4-4, that: Ayyars become rather competent button-pushing shooters, being able to move 6'' in the first short move, Holoechos included. Pretty neat if you ask me ( Especially since, as a connoisseur of fine power armor, I do really like Ayyars. ). Ragiks get a mobility boost as well out of it, which is pretty gosh-darned neat.
You can certainly add that in. I didnt, because they do not benefit any further from the rules changes, than any other unit of that type does. Altough, when thinking about it, the Ayyar gains some ground back in Vanilla compared to the Namurr (which I think is vastly superior imho, if you got the extra points and SWC).
Too early, I think not. We have a few things to talk about and more will come not so far in the future, I hope. Really, N4 is close. The movement IP change could be a positive thing, of course, and is what the light HI should have in first place in N3, but are we sure every HI will be 6/2? Probably not. So, we will have to wait. The "new critical hit", for the moment is something probably don't do any favor to the "actual hassasins", because one of his virtues are the muyib and that "doged". Yes, in n4 they could survive to a shock impact, even if is critical, but too they can die for a crictical impacto of a combirifle in ARO. Same works for the Asawira. In a sectorial where the heavy "bli" is equal to 3, the new "DA Crit" will be more devastating than anything else. So, I will hope some kind or rebalance here. About the Lasiqs, yes, I think one of the reasons why most of people don`t use too much, even when they have now a pretty reasonable haris, is the 4/2 mov, so 4/4 probably do the trick and allow the lasiqs go into the table more often. Fiday and shotguns, we will see how the direct templates works in N4, but in N3 standars it will be a change, of course, but not necesarely a bad one.
Hmm so HI are getting a huge boost through 6-2 movement, MI are getting a boost with 4-4 move, and maybe some other n3 carryover rules like FD1. crits now give armor more value, and with camo broken down we can get more unique and cost effective skirmishers i suppose. But has there been any chatter about LI getting anything? I know being non hackable is still good and all, but it seems like LI are losing some edges. And as a primarily LI heavy faction it worries me a little bit. Am i valid in feeling a little apprehensive here, or does this all seem fair and good?
Think of it like this: your LI might not get better as a type, but most of them is already very good. What will get better are those other choices, often overlooked or hampered by their type's drawbacks. Assuming that these units will stay mostly the same I'm not looking forward to facing new, faster Lasiqs or Ragiks with new-type LSGs. Ayrans were already unpleasant, and with 6-2 MOV they can be only more so.
I appreciate the efforts at a positive attitude but shifting from 1. Light infantry are fast but fragile, heavier infantry are slow but more durable, to 2. Light infantry are slow and fragile, heavier infantry are faster and more durable is a pretty fundamental change and is objectively bad for Haqqislam and it’s disproportionately LI based list, unless at the very least it comes with significant revision to other aspects of the list, or a points reduction. Assuming the speed boosts don’t apply to our oversized HI, we’ve got like a half dozen units that benefit from the change, total. Everything else does not. I’m not saying we’re screwed or that nothing will balance this out (just changing points alone can solve almost anything), but it IS a nerf, and it IS a substantial change is design philosophy, particularly from the perspective of people who were around for first edition where Haqq was the maneuverability faction.
On Light Infantry...I dont know...apart from exceptions (Zhayedans) all of our LI is okay to quite good. On the other hand MI and HI mostly struggled a bit to compete outside from some exceptional profiles and those who can link with cheap dudes. So I guess, its okay that they gain back some ground. I also hope, that our big HI get 4-4 Mov...they dont need it as much, because they are all just long range gun platforms, but sometimes that 4-2 is costing you an additional order to reach a corner and that hurts, when those models aready cost so much for Haqq standards. @Cadfan17 Interesting point about the mobility faction. How was Haqq more mobile back then, compared to the other factions? That or a Marksman Rifle. Hortlaks are quite underdeveloped as far as profiles go. A bit more variety would be baller.
The sum of a lot of little things. We had motorcycles. No one else did. We had super jump. Almost no one else did. We had good warbands, meaning extra orders, and other factions had fewer special bonus orders so this was more meaningful. We had lots of advance deployment options (impersonate, infiltrate, mechanized deployment, AD), and more importantly everyone else had fewer so they made up a bigger part of our list. Our AD was (is, IMO) particularly great and AD was arguably more powerful. Our TAG had “braces” which let our soldiers ride on them to move up field faster. Their rules were busted but the intent was plain. HI and MI were almost exclusively 4/2 movement so just being LI was a speed boost. Our slight edge in LI (it was smaller then) was more meaningful. And fire teams didn’t exist so if you wanted to get lots of troops down field fast you paid a lot to do it, or used war bands. And we could do that in a way others could not. The only real competitor for maneuverability was the CA, which always got the best of everything back then. Or dog heavy Ariadna maybe. In short, everything was slower, more stuff started in your DZ, getting out of your DZ was harder, most everything except line troopers and skirmishers plodded along at 4/2, and Haqq had 8/6 motorcycle speed demons and jumped over buildings and deployed line infantry at the mid line of the table and had Hassassins next to your DZ and raining from the sky.
I feel like they are built for cqc. I dont want them getting a smr cause thats more for the ayyar and a djan profile. I want to see non linkable FD2 profiles with boarding shotgun, ap rifle, smg, maybe a dep. Make having a model in thr same building as a hortlak a terrifying thought. But i dont want to see flamers or chain rifles. Maybe a chain colt profile tho, or grenades? D charges too perhaps. Like a one man breach and clear.
