Situation: My trooper at the beginning of his activation can see target A, but can't see target B. Trooper declare his first short skill shoot. With his second short skill he declares short movement skill move and moves into position to get Line of fire to both targets. Can he split burst at both targets?
No, they can't. From http://infinitythewiki.com/en/BS_Attack_Declaration, see the bolded text: Move + BS Attack (or vice versa) Since the Skills used in an Order are simultaneous, a BS Attack can be declared at any point during the route followed by the Move Skill. If the Burst is divided among several targets, all shots must be made from a single point. Usually, the attack is made from the position that offers the biggest advantage: a clear LoF, uncovered targets, optimal range, etc.
Thanks - Į also tought and played so, just one new player asked me and I wanted to make sure that I get it right :)
Aha! This is one of those things where "declared in sequence, resolved simultaneously" gets me. This helps clarify something, I think. Am I understanding correctly that the main difference between Move + BS Attack and BS Attack + Move is that the first option leaves you free to declare your attack from anywhere along the movement path, and the second obliges you to declare the attack (including checking LoF) from your starting point, since you have not yet declared movement at that time?
If so, with BS Attack + Move are ARO limited to only those who can see the first short order point, or can you still be ARO'd all along the path of Move?
Maybe I'm just daft, but doesn't that explicitly allow karolis' example? After moving, the unit has LOF to both targets and splits Burst between the two form a single point, i. e. at the end of its movement.
If you declare MOV first, you can then split burst if a single point on your path grants LOF to both targets.
For example: If you are unsure what ARO a trooper is going to do and moving is contingent on that. Say you are behind partial cover and in LoF of an enemy trooper who is at pretty bad odds against you. You also want to advance up the board with your trooper if possible, but don't want to risk a shot against you out of cover. BS attack first to see what they do. If they shoot back, maybe idle or drop prone to be out of LoF in future orders or something. If they dodge back behind total cover, however... move up. If they miss their dodge, they get shot and possibly go down. If they make their dodge, they are in total cover and can't shoot you as you continue to advance. Also, adding impact template weapons might make it more logical to BS attack first in some circumstances.
It's frequently beneficial to declare move first, as it opens up more lines and baits out AROs from your opponent. I'm sure that you can come up with a scenario where shooting first gives you an edge, but it's relatively infrequent. Much more common are cases where it genuinely makes no difference what order you declare them in, which is the case if both players are confident that there's no hidden information in play.
Augh wait no. I’ve reread the order declaration rules for BS Attack and the corresponding FAQ, along with the general rules for the order expenditure sequence, and it looks almost like they’re contradictory? Infinity’s quantum movement path declarations strike again. It almost looks like the rules allow you to declare BS Attack on any troops you might have LoF to along your unspoken but intended movement path, and it won’t turn into an Idle as long as your move second skill puts you in LoF by the Resolution step when measurements happen. That opens up weird ARO denial shenanigans, I think? It seems odd, but based on the BS Attacks FAQ entries on the Wiki... N3 Frequently Asked Question FAQ Version: 1.1 Q: When do you choose which point of the movement path the BS Attack (or any other similar Skill) is performed? A: In the Resolution step, when the players are about to measure distances. In case the order of declaration is important, the active player is the one who chooses who must declare it first. N3 Frequently Asked Question FAQ Version: 1.1 Q: That means that if I declare my first Short Skill while in Cover, my opponents may declare their Attacks when this trooper is in Cover even if my second Short Skill is a movement that takes it out of that Cover? A: No. The opponents will declare the Skills that they are going to use, with all the corresponding details. But the Attacks are made at the best point of the movement for the one who declares the Attack. Can anyone disambiguate this for me? It really looks like it says you pick your LoF during Resolution and not before, but that seems incompatible in principle with needing to have LoF to declare a typical BS Attack in the first place. Or is it only that you have to have LoF at order declaration, and later you can choose the LoF path for your shot based on where gives you the best range/partial cover MODs, as long as you first met the initial LoF at Declaration requirement? I feel like this needs a step-by-step diagram.
Basically, the specific point from which all shots are made is picked just before dice rolls are made and each player gets to pick spot optimally for them (unless we're talking about most templates, because you need to put down the templates on declaration and particularly teardrops are direction-critical). If you shot at two enemies that do not share a common spot you can shoot from at, you're going to lose some of your burst.
Let's try that diagram approach... Activation: The Shihab (green) activates. Order expenditure: The Active Player removes from the table, or otherwise marks as spent, the Order Marker he uses to activate the trooper. Declaration of the First Skill: The Shihab (green) declares the first skill to Move over to the other corner to the Shihab (black) position. Declaration of AROs: The two Haidao both gain ARO and declare BS Attack, targeting the Shihad with Breaker Pistols. Declaration of the Second Skill: The Active Player declares that the Shihab will declare BS Attack, thinking that since it can see both Haidao, it can target both and distributes 2 burst each. Declaration of AROs: The Reactive Player gains no new ARO. Resolution: When the players take measurements, the reactive player points out that the Shihab needs to pick a spot to shoot from. Shihab has no spot where it can see both Haidao and has to select a spot which means it'll lose BS Attack against one of them. The active player notices the Hacker Haidao is slightly outside 8" and chooses that spot, so the Sniper Haidao gets B1 normal roll while the Hacker Haidao is forced to make a B1 FTF against the Shihab's Burst of 2. Effects: Players apply all effects of successful Orders or AROs, and make ARM/BTS Rolls. Conclusion: If necessary, players make Guts Rolls and apply their effects.
You need LoF to declare BS Attack. You can’t speculatively nominate targets you think you might gain LoF to later in the order.
As @toadchild mentioned, neither of those FAQs overrides the requirements for declaring a skill. If you are around a corner, you cannot declare BS attack, have the opponent declare change facing, and then declare move around the corner to catch them with a -3 dodge FtF (these are the shenanigans I believe you were talking about). Both of those FAQs have to do with choosing the point during a movement from which to fire your weapon. You still had to have had a legal BS attack declaration to even get to that stage.
So let me get this straight. Active trooper A is in ZoC of enemy trooper B. Trooper A has a LoF to enemy trooper C, but not to trooper B. B and C don’t have LoF to trooper A. Trooper C is out of range of all trooper A weapons. Trooper A declares BS attack as a 1st skill, even though all legal targets are out of range at this point. Trooper C can’t declare an ARO. Trooper B is forced to declare Change Facing ARO. Trooper A declares Move as a 2nd skill. Now trooper A has LoF to model B and vice versa. Trooper A can shoot at model B? If this is true, then white noise hackers need to think carefully where they set up their repeater net. EDIT : even more ridiculous example
No, you choose how you split your burst as part of the BS Attack Declaration, if you can't see an enemy when you Declare the skill you can't assign burst to them.
It's worth noting that the interaction with C is legit. It's useful if you're advancing on a trooper with a template weapon. 3. Alice declares BS Attack from beyond template range with a Combi Rifle 4. Bob declares BS Attack with a Pistol or Dodge 5. Alice Moves to within Chain Rifle range of Bob Or alternatively, 3. Alice declares BS Attack with a Combi Rifle 4. Bob declares BS Attack with a Chain Rifle but when the template is placed, Alice is outside of the template and the attack is cancelled and becomes an Idle 5. Alice advances into the area precious covered by the template at 4 It's also useful if you're in cover and facing an enemy with a template weapon: 3. Alice declares BS Attack with a Combi Rifle 4. Bob declares BS Attack with a LSG, placing the template in the position Alice is in at Step 3 (ie. A position in which she has cover) 5. Alice declares Move and leaves cover. 6. No addnl AROs. 7. Because at the point chosen for Bob's BS Attack Alice has cover, Bob suffers a -3 to hit MOD from Cover. Inevitably Bob will roll a crit :'(
Interesting... Not really sure about 2nd and 3rd case, because "all happens at once". I've always argued that the only advantage the active player can take by means of declaration order is just the "psychologic" one, meaning that he can make the reactive player choose badly and always have "the last word", but not effecting the result of the full order and aro. Applied to these cases: 1st case is perfectly fine: Alice made Bob choose Pistol/Dodge because Bob couldn't be sure if the template would hit, after second half of the order was declared. 2nd and 3rd cases: I'd say that Alice gambled but lost, because Bob choose to use the template anyways (probably thinking that Alice was going to advance). Alice could then choose to stay out of template range/behind cover if she wanted to better her odds, or move as initially intended but suffering the impact without cover.
