The guy in my example is being a cunt. I suggested telling him to 'fuck off' (which in my locale counts as 'polite disagreement') and then calling the TO. That seems reasonable for a person who deliberately withheld open information and put me into LOL (what, people still run Hacker Lts....).
If my opponent is truly struggling keeping track of open information because perhaps they're a very new player, that's what my courtesy list is for. I give them that to hang onto which helps answer most questions before they need to be asked. If they're asking for the same open information over and over and over like you suggest in a manner designed to deliberately slow the game down, that's what a TO is for. If someone is behaving like that it's up to them to sort it out. In pick up games that's not an issue, those sorts of people don't get many games for obvious reasons. I do, and I also get to frequently play against HP units. That's entirely your own fault, someone shoving an expensive HI up the board like that which isn't taking shots at anything, using suppressive fire at the end of a turn, and is at all costs avoiding making reactions to any kind of ARO is a pretty big give away that something is amiss. If you miss this information and don't act on it, that's your own fault. Stuff like a Hsien moving up the board and not shooting at Warcors and the like ARO pieces through his smoke cover is a pretty big give away that somebody is behaving odd. Complaining that your opponent needs to inform you of this beforehand is just complaining that you want someone to play the game for you. In this case you'd get told it's your own loss, suck it up and learn from the situation. Your opponent took a gamble and set up the game to lure you into a trap, which you then walked into, well done to them. Also stop swearing at your opponent, if you can't control yourself you should go home and play something that stresses you out less.
If I can't trust you to provide me with open information, I will ask for it. Constantly. "Can you please provide me with all open information that's not on the CL." might be more appropriate. But if you prove to be untrustworthy enough to try and pull the bullshit about only providing info that's asked about, you're going to hear that line a lot and I am fully entitled to ask it and any resulting slowdown would depend on your ability to provide said information in a succinct and expedient manner.
Yeah so essentially you are trying to argue you only have to tell open info when asked. And then arguing that asking to often is unsportsmanlike and slow play... So in practical terms you want your opponent to have no way of knowing that open info.... So you want it to be private.... The rules arent the issue here
I have seen this type of discussion several times, concerning several rules. I'll take this example for a bit of clarity... ...Ok 2 things: 1) I can't get the quote thingy to work in my phone right now. 2) The example I was going to use was the Kanren Holoprojected as a HI. That is one extreme case of Holo Shenanigans tha actually works as intended if you ask me. It bypasses the common questions: -"Is it Hackable?" In this situation the question could very well not be posed, it looks like a HI, and there should be a profile like that on the Courtesy list. That's where it usually ends for anyone asking for open Information. I can see where it could be seen as cheating, but it's no different than someone shooting from afar at my Red-Haired Odalisque with a SMG/Contender, and complaining because she shot back with a Viral Sniper Rifle because she was a Husam Spec-Op Hafza, part of my Odalsiques Link Team and equipped with that weapon. I find that particular example to be the correct use of Holoprojector. With that said. I think we should all stop attacking each other concerning Sportsmanship. Unless you actually know personally the player you're having a disscussion with, it is a disrespect to assume the type of player they are. Because I'm quite sure that in person, each of you would really have a great time playing against me, because we all agree this game is a dialogue between two adults.
It's not in a manner designed to deliberately slow the game down, it's in a manner designed to avoid missing any information. The fact that you see your opponents trying to play a good game as "slow play" is a separate issue.
You are all attempting to use a fairly weak strawman as an argument. If I activate a model and you ask for information, and I'll give you the answer to your question. Not a problem. If I activate again, you ask for the same information again, I'll raise an eyebrow and give you the same answer as before, which is the correct information to the question you asked. If activate the model a third time in quick succession and you ask for the same information again I'm either going to assume you are very, very, new to the game and give you my courtesy list and point you through all the models, and probably have to help you with equipment and special rules you don't understand. Or if I think you're not new and you're trying to play with some silly agenda I'm going to call the TO and explain that you're being A) really weird, and B) causing some slowplay for unknown reasons.
Youve shown a willingness to not be open truthful and sportsmanlike in your games. Its no wonder your opponents are going to ask that every order because you have said if they dont ask you will not inform them. The consequences of that attitude are your own
And this all belies the point thag the rules state you have to divulge information at the point it becomes open anyway. So by the by
And there you are again trying to find some moral high ground that doesn't exist by pretending that asking the same question over and over like you have Alzheimers because you are going to pretend you can't remember what you were told the first time is a legitimate way to play the game. If you need to ask for the same information three orders in a row, after receiving the same answer 3 times in a row, you either have absolutely no idea how the game works because you are completely new to the game, or you are deliberately causing slow play. That's pretty clear there.
@Triumph you're fixating on the entirely wrong issue. You have stated clearly that you do not intend to volunteer new information. I am saying, that if I face you or someone acting that way, I will be forced to ask for all information that I don't already have. This is not something you and I disagree on, you yourself literally said that I'd have to ask for it and logically that means I have to ask often. My question is when you think it gets annoying. My question wouldn't be "repeat everything I already know", it'd be "give me everything that just changed". You'd get that constantly, but inferring Alzheimer's or inexperience for asking for it is insulting (and speaking of moral high ground, that's also a great way to give moral high ground up) You'd also get the very open question because asking specifically about all potential open information that might have changed is annoying as hell and means I'd miss important stuff like "can I Mind Blast that dude" so I'll just ask about stuff that puts all of that bookkeeping on you.
If you are asking for different information each time, then there is no problem. That's a normal conversation to have during the game. If you ask me 3 times in a row if the same model you suspect of being a holoprojection is hackable, and I tell you the same answer 3 times in a row, then you'd be being obtuse. Or if you ask a chain of stupid questions, like if you ask if something is hackable, receive the answer that it isn't, then immediately ask if carbonite works on it. The only reason to ask those questions one after the other would be the player is trying to be deliberately annoying and disruptive, so you'd call a TO if they kept doing it. If you asked for 3 separate models then there is absolutely no issue. That's exactly what you should be doing. Open questions are fine provided the player isn't expecting that answer will include private information. Open questions are common course during the game, the most frequent being the if I move a model through there what's got LOF?
No, I don't mean "what LOF does that model have?" or "what can I hack that one with?" - I mean "What new open information is there?". Possibly "This is a hacker, what open information do you have for this trooper" (ZoC and detecting Holo troopers is a PITA, after all) Wide open non-directed question. Huge nets trawling for all potential hidden, but not private, information. Give me all lines of sight that you are aware of, all hackable targets you think are in range of my infowar, any newly revealed remaining disposable equipment, and, quite frankly, anything you think I missed.
@Triumph, sorry man, but I think you're being Trolled. I seem to have understood your position perfectly from the first time you posted, yet this intestine discussion seems to be more about what they percieve "your unsportsman playstyle" to be, rather than the issue at hand or how good a sport you really are. I don't know any of the participants personally, and I don't know if they play with you regularly, making this is a personal issue? If that is not the case and they don't play with you, then just dismiss them. I doubt they would really have a problem playing you in real life, because I got that you would be gracious enough to offer information when asked, like ANY OF US in the same situation.
@Triumph , say you're playing against Nomads, and they've set up quite an extensive repeater net in the midfield. Every time one of your models walks into an enemy hacking area, they ask what hacking programs the model is capable of being targeted with. Why is that slow play?
It's pretty clear not bothering to read any of these posts at all. The answer to your question has been previously posted. These aren't hard questions to answer. 95% of the time the answer is going to be "Nothing new" and "I'm activating model X, here's the courtesy list". If it happens to be a Holoprojected troop I'm going to have the relevant information prepared to give to you if you ask a question. "Give me all lines of sight that you're aware of." I'd ask you to specify a point or general area on the table, we don't have all day. "all hackable targets you think are in range of my infowar, any newly revealed remaining disposable equipment," That's easy enough to answer quickly. "anything you think I missed." That part of the question is subjective, I'd point that out and tell them to be more specific. I'm not going to answer that one, then have the opponent move a model around a corner into a camo marker and complain because he forgot it was there but I thought he was aware of its presence. If they really want an answer I'd just give them the courtesy list because it's all in there.
Nah, I read them. To paraphrase, you think that people trying to not be caught with their pants down by your HP1 troops is unsportsmanlike and slow play.
Fair enough, Triumph, you're still chopping up my explanation into questions, but I think we've run the course on this one.
