Needing some advice against Specfire lists

Well said!

 

Dealing with Spec Fire every once in a while is part of the game. If an opponent does it all the time, then yeah don't play that player (when they're playing that army at least) if you can help it. But if it's only occasional, or you're going to play tourneys, just refusing to play that game is not an option.

Given the number of StarCo and Druze players out there (and sometimes decent threats from other linkteam GLs), it's definitely worth learning to deal with this crappy tactic. It's also an interesting puzzle to solve, and you'll feel good about it when you do.

If your meta is rife with it or you just hate Spec Fire enough to want to whup players using it, take a list tuned to kill it (and hopefully do a few other things well too). A camospam list is probably a good place to start. Camo-heavy is fun with YJ anyways, so not a bad choice. Stay away from REMs, and keep a doc and engineer around to pick up the pieces after you get your turn and scrap that Squalo (or Emily or whatever).

 

This is a sound argument, although if my opponent tried to play such ineffective strategy on me, I'd just bee-line to his DZ, eliminate as many of his order pool as possible and watch him slowly lose the game by being unable to do anything.

That's, of course, if you're not playing LI, which is a heavily uneven tournament format that favours the 1st player. In that case you just pray you don't lose more than 2 orders during opponent's first turn and then try to focus on their order monkeys.

 

You have to put this into context of what is good strategy. The Squalos is extremely expensive for this purpose, and big, but far from bad at it with a 33% of disabling a vital remote and decent chances of wounding heavy infantry. The key is that your opponent will be able to position templates so that you can't put key pieces within 2" of a common point they have LOF to which on most tables will severely limit your deployment.
Emily has 13% chance of disabling a Zuyong in a Core which sounds crap until you think a bit further; that's 13% against two or three Zuyong if the opponent is IA. Those numbers rise moderately if Emily's Fireteam moves forward to cap objectives, but more importantly there is no big investment that cripple the Starco player such that beelining for their order pool would be any more or less easy.
If the terrain is unfavourable, the opponent can keep sticking down templates that threaten 3+ models until you dodge or Guts out into the open where a HMG can make mince meat out of whatever target that is.

It is very difficult to deal with as they strike with impunity, but you just have to hope that they overextend themselves (i.e. tunnel vision on a specific model and forget to move tactically).

 

This is exactly why I usually put an HMG in my Alguacile/Emily links... besides having a hail-Mary long-range shooter if my snipers etc. can't deal with whatever direct threat has to be removed that Spec Fire can't deal with quickly enough... and having something to kill MSV2 snipers through White Noise with after ARO-baiting them with a linkteam member.

And this is exactly how I usually lose with an Emily list. For some reason it's really hard to keep that in mind once the bloodlust gets up (or overfocus on removing a trooper that has high chances of achieving vital objectives).

 

While I know it’s a bit of being IA, that list in particular looks very “eggs in one basket”. Also, I’ve only done IA twice now so there’s that. But I really don’t like having 2 out of 10 figures that do almost nothing. The remotes are particularly vulnerable to spec-fire due to the -3 to dodge and then -3 for out LoS. The Husong are the first things I’d go for with my Druze E/M LGL. The link team at least has sixth sense but even so it’s rough when if you get them too close together. I’m honestly not a fan of Qiang or Krit, but love Tai and Lei. If you “downgrade” them, you can take a Liu Xing AHD to walk up and tap that Tag on the shoulder.

With Vanilla, I’d use Tiger Soldiers, you can’t shoot what’s not on the table, any number of camo troops.

 

I'd actually start with Krit. Tag him and the list grinds to a halt with no recovery. Husong can spread out too much so I'd only EM those if they prevented me from moving Druze/Emily forward to avoid the -6 rangeband and with saito that's not even remotely an issue.
Just move forward, ping a few objectives and statue Krit.

 

Sure! The basic unit of Spitfire Daofei and 2x Guilangs has been in a LOT of my vanilla lists over the years. With all the fun new camo stuff from IA, a camo list is way more viable.

Here's one that would give a Spec Fire opponent only a few Zanshi to shoot at (probably thinking they're possible Lts.) or your Irregular Monstrucker (who has a decent PH). The Monstrucker's in there just because I really hate my Daofei getting IMMed, but if your opponent has no jammers etc., a Libertos Minelayer would be even better.

Spoiler: Hidey Shooty Goodness

Hidey Shooty Goodness
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 10
DÀOFĚI Spitfire / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 55)
GŬILÁNG (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
GŬILÁNG (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26)
ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
MAJOR LUNAH Viral Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29)
DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

GROUP 2 1 2
NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29)
MONSTRUCKER Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

4.5 SWC | 296 Points

Open in Infinity Army

But vs. VIRD in particular, that's more of an uphill battle because of the MSV snipers and Jammers. Lei Gong is tempting but he'd get shelled to death for sure if you go second.

Things will also be a lot harder thanks to the Jammers (midfield camo's natural predator). A Liberto would be a decent tool for taking out Jammers, if you can get him there without getting sniped, or if you coordinate a shot with Lunah and something else against the Kamau first.

I added a Bountyhunter sniper in there just for coordinating against the Kamau.

Spoiler: YJ Camo vs. VIRD

Hidey Shooty Goodnes, VIRD-killer flavor
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 10
DÀOFĚI Spitfire / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 55)
GŬILÁNG (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
GŬILÁNG (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26)
ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
MAJOR LUNAH Viral Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29)
BOUNTY HUNTER Sniper Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

GROUP 2 2 2
MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)
WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)

6 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

 

Sorry yes, I missed that.

 

What some call meme lists others play seriously. What some call meme lists they also play seriously. You never know.

Pers'nally what I see whenever someone mentions "meme list" is "skew list". Admittedly the first thing I also thought was "that's a terrible skew list" but the Husong gives it some credibility. It's amazing what a couple of TR REMs will do to some lists and how much they can punish certain strategies so my reaction was more along the lines of "but the Husong are the good part of that list!"

Just think what those sods can do to a list that can also punish Saito! (So... a Haidao sniper linked with Zhanshi basically ... and sadly)

 

I am one of those people :P

Personally, I like using a Daofei Spit with a Zhencha BSG (I know most people don't like the profile but having a Camo'd BSG that can reach the enemy backline/fireteam in one or two orders is something I love. Sometimes you do enough damage with it that you just snowball into a win) as a tandem of attack pieces and a couple of Guilang specialists as support units. Some times one of the Guilangs gets a minelayer "dowgrade", since I also take the KHD Ninja and having two specialists in the midfield is enough most of the time.

 

As a new player starting out that's a default combo for me because I get those models in the Beyond Red Veil box. I'm liking it so far.

 

You usually don't, a lot of the time you get discovered on your way there but it doesn't matter. Once you are in their DZ with a shotgun it's showtime. Most of my opponents have some camo units that get LoS to my camo but decide not to ARO with a discover and reveal themselves, or they have a long range ARO that guards the lane my unit is coming from. Sometimes they discover but it takes just ONE free 4-shoots burst from a Daofei to make them re think the decision next time.

Is that the BSG? Is that the Spit? Is that the Liberto? Those mind games are a really cool part of playing with various camo tokens, at least IMO.

 

In missions where you need to move forward or take quarters, it's great to go second. Make them come to you! Something like a Daofei can weather a fist turn more than others.