Quick question: If your camo/TO camo dude gets hit by flame ammo, it says his camo/TO camo is reduced to lvl1: mimetism. Does it mean your dude also loses the skills confered by camo/TO camo, like stealth (unless he has it on his profile, or another skill that gives it to him ofc)?
Never thought of that (usually my camoed troops die when it by a flammer) but the answer seems to be yes. You loose CH lvl 2 or 3 and are reduce to level 1 so you loose all benefit from lvl 2/3, including stealth
I would argue that the unit doesn't stop having CH L2+, but the wording for Burnt says "downgraded to" instead of what I'd have expected "may only make use of". Arguably, however, CH L2+ grants the user Stealth, and this is not explicitly removed. Just to add to the confusion; Corregidor Bandit (CH L2) uses Cybermask (NFB) which suppresses CH L2. Does the Bandit lose Stealth? On that topic, I do note that a Cyberghost KHD in Cybermask state never gains Surprise Attack but still gets to use it because it says so in Impersonation effects. While this is the reverse of this topic, I think it serves to show that the relationship between skills granted and skills useable isn't necessarily strict. I'd TO it as that Stealth is not removed.
If Skill A grants you additional skills B & C (say, Veteran L2 grants SS L2 and V:NWI), if you lose Skill A, you lose access to skills B & C. When your TO Camo is downgraded by Fire ammo to Mimetism, you lose access to Stealth, Suprise Shot and Surprise Attack, just as you lose access to the -6 modifier.
It's a leveled skill, and they no longer have access to the level that grants Stealth. Do you need it to say explicitly that the modifiers for Camo:2 and Camo:3 no longer apply? I hope not. *cough* Q: Can a Hacker that acquired the Impersonation-2 state using the Hacking Program: Cybermask declare a Surprise Attack or a Surprise Shot? A: Yes. As stated in the Impersonation-2 state Effects of the online version (updated from the Errata file), a trooper in this state may use the Surprise Attack or Surprise Shot L1 Special Skills.
The relevant FAQs indicate that CB made a mistake by tying the "surprise" skills to other skills rather than states.
See @solkan's post above - models that don't have surprise shot or surprise attack are allowed to use it if they somehow enter an appropriate state (usually via Cybermask).
Don't know if it's intentional, but you're coming across as overly sarcastic. Burnt prevents the use of CH:2 and CH: 3, but the additional skills are granted to the CH:2+ user, they are not part of the effects of using CH:2+ the way Surprise Shot while in Impersonation is. I see you, too, found the FAQ I was referring to. The Hacker doesn't ever gain that skill. The may just use it. The difference is that CH:2 says that the user gains Stealth skill, not that the user may use that skill as part of the effects.
I fully agree. The way they've written the rules, Surprise Attack and Surprise Shot should be common skills with criterias for use
Yes. Surprise Attack / Shot shouldn't be a skill you have but should just be something you can do if you're in a Marker state.
I'd say if you manage to attack from the back (say, after Cautious Movement and Stealth), you should also get Surprise Attack.
Well if you are outside of 8" of the Target model they cannot react which is better than Surprise Attack and if you are within 8" the enemy model will be forced to dodge at -3 as it is an attack from outside of their LOS.
That's not what we're saying. We're saying Surprise Attack and Surprise Shot should be Common Skills, not Special Skills, and have a requirement that says "User must be in Marker state (Holoecho, Camouflaged, Impersonation-2, ...)". I.e. it should be a skill everyone has access to, regardless of whether they're an SAS or a Line Kazak, but for most they would not be able to use the skill much like a character without a BS Weapon would still have the BS Attack skill even if they can't use it.
