FUBAR - Coordinated Order, Revealing Camo and LoF

Depends,

Whats the second skill, and does that second skill drop camo? such as button push or dodge?

See what happens is the coordinated models declare the skill, reveal if applicable, and then idle.

So for example if it was push button/console with shinobu the Ninja and the Oni would also declare push button, drop camo and then idle because they dont fit the resolution requirements of the skill.

In terms of PanO the PanO troopers have held, they havent declared an ARO yet and hold is not an ARO itself, as the Ninja and Oni are now visible during the second short skill they are valid targets for when the PanO player does declare its ARO after the second short skill. (Probably shoot)

This is slightly different when you have mixed camo and non-camo units where a "Hold" ARO means you forgo an ARO vs the models that you can see during the first short skill.

 

also, in the above situation its worth noting that units declaring the "Move" short skill do not block LOF for that movement, so you cant hide shinobu behind the ninja and Oni anyway.

Furthermore Camo Tokens dont block LOF anyway

 

Not to forget that your opponent have to declare which of your Markers they Delay their ARO against! They can't Delay against the whole group.

 

Do you have a link to that conclusion? I was under the impression it was Hold/Dont hold and then you could decide which after they reveal

 

http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Coord...d_Order_example:_Coordinating_Marker_troopers

When AROing, you may choose to delay your order, it follows through slightly obscure logic that order of procedure is important; first have to announce which model is reacting and then which model they are reacting to, after that you may declare you are delaying that reaction.

 

Works for me but I would like to see it defined with more solidity still

 

Agreed. It has very important tactical impact in favour of the active player.

 

The first point I kinda get, as at least you should be able to say "I shoot Kitsune when she is at the beginning of her movement while the Oni are at the end of theirs", due to how choosing the location you shoot them at works (and I don't know of any rule stating that every unit moves each inch simultaneously).

The second thing though, can you reference a rule? Because I know of no rule stating that Camo does not block LoF and it would be good to know where to find it if that's the case.

 

Unless otherwise indicated for specific purposes, Markers do not obstruct LoF.

http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Line_of_Fire_(LoF)

As to movement, no its not because you can pick timing, its because moving miniatures do not block LOF.


In the same way, troops declaring a Movement (As Move, Climb, Jump, Engage, Dodge in ARO...) do not obstruct LoF all along their trajectory.

Same reference

 

You'd have to declare a skill that drops you as "reveal" itself is not a skill. Dodge would work but that would drop the other markers as well.

And no a coord wouldnt get you there, in those circumstances nothing you could do while the other two units are markers would prevent shinobu getting shot.

Now if they were not markers and were say, HI of some sort, you could do it in multiple orders by moving just shinobu so they blocked LOF and then dropping camo

 

Or wait until you get another chance to drop in ARO or next turn

 

Looks like @daboarder covered all the major points. I just have one question about your opening line:

When you say "reveal", did you mean that they started in Hidden Deployment? While that is legal, it does mean that you waste all three of their reserved regular orders.
http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Hidden_Deployment

Q: I have some TO Camo troopers in Hidden Deployment. They are all in the same group and they are all Regular. Now:
c) If I coordinate 3 TO Camo troopers in Hidden Deployment in this way, will I add their Orders to the Order Pool, lose them, or something else?

A: No. These Orders can only be used to reveal and activate the troop in Hidden Deployment. So these Orders will be lost.

 

Since coordinated orders have to come from your regular order pool, you can't use the reserved order of the hidden deployment model to pay for the coordinated order. Furthermore, since you can only use the reserved order to reveal from hidden deployment, you can't spend it once the TO Camo marker is on the table.

It ends up being a tradeoff. If you use their own reserved orders to activate group of TO Camo markers, you have greater ARO exposure, but you don't spend any orders from your pool. In this example, it would be activating each of those markers in turn, and having them each do a move-activate. If instead you use a coordinated order, your opponent can't ARO all of them, but you must spend an order from your pool, and you lose access to the reserved orders.

 

Note that this tradeoff is also there for AD troopers that want to come in with a coordinated order.

 

It doesnt need an order from the pool though, you can use one of the hidden orders for the coord.