Dude just no. The entering a hacking area is the event. You divulge it. Theres no wiggle room here. Nor is there a rai argument. Theres not even a moral one. Open info is to be divulged
I'm afraid that's just totally wrong. That's not how it's written in the rules. That's not how it's given in the gameplay examples in the rules. Players ask for information. That's how it's written.
You mean, the one with "Non Hackable" in his skill pool? ;) Hacking devices are Comms Equipment. Most hacking programs require a specific target (TAG, Remote, HI, a model with the Hackable characteristic, a Comms Equipment to attack, be in Active Turn, etc...). By carrying a Hacking Device of any kind a model fulfills several characteristics. I would end calling for an arbiter, if my opponent keeps stalling by forcing me to ask a closed list of questions every time I need to declare a Short Order or an ARO. I will explain it to you on another way, however. To volunteer something, in Spanish: Spoiler: Voluntario voluntario, ria Del lat. voluntarius. 1. adj. Dicho de un acto: Que nace de la voluntad, y no por fuerza o necesidad extrañas a aquella. 2. adj. Que se hace por espontánea voluntad y no por obligación o deber. 3. adj. Que obra por capricho. 4. m. y f. Persona que, entre varias obligadas por turno o designación a ejecutar algún trabajo o servicio, se presta a hacerlo por propia voluntad, sin esperar a que le toque su vez. Translated: 1.- Adjective: Said of an act: Which is born from will, yet not by force nor needs external to it. 2.- Adjective: What is done by spontaneous will, and not by obligation or duty. 3.- Adjective: Acts by whim. 4.- Male and female noun: Person who, among several forced by turn or designation to do a work or service, presents herself for doing it by her own will, without waiting for her turn to come. So. You affirmation that "my opponent needs to ask me" is plain wrong, because you want to wait until forced to disclose. Go back to play rulesets, here we play a game. Not really. If any troop moves inside my Hacking Area but my hackers have no Line of Fire, I reflexively ask if that troop is hackable, not because I'm forced to, but because this is a collaborative game, as stated on the rules, where both players have the obligation to hel pone another to identify AROs. So Morgana's player is being a nice playing partner, not setting a precedent of "ask or it's your loss".
I'm sorry if you don't like it but the rules are clear in this case. If you want information you ask for it. Trying to bring Spanish into the argument for whatever reason is pointless as English ruleset supercedes it anyway. This is hardly against the spirit of the game either. Your way of playing is clearly against how Holoprojectors are supposed to work. Holoprojectors are a game mechanic built around a side game of deceit through a shell game. You, trying to bend the rules to game an advantage to prevent your opponent's models from functioning as intended is very much against the spirit of the game.
Go down from your high horse dude. Spanish game, made in spanish, translated to english. Claiming English supersedes it has literally less base than my bringing the spanish definition of what "to volunteer" means. Also, I used the RDA definition because it's the official organization that defines spanish words. As for the english one, I am at a loss... but I will nevertheless try, with the Wikipedia for example: Spoiler: Quoted from wikipedia Etymology Borrowed from Middle French voluntaire, from Latin voluntārius (“willing, voluntary”); or from voluntary + -eer. Pronunciation (General American) IPA(key): /vɑl.ənˈtɪɹ/ (Received Pronunciation) IPA(key): /vɒl.ənˈtɪə/ Rhymes: -ɪə(ɹ) Hyphenation: vol‧un‧teer Noun volunteer (plural volunteers) One who enters into, or offers for, any service of his/her own free will, especially when done without pay. (military) One who enters into military service voluntarily, but who, when in service, is subject to discipline and regulations like other soldiers; -- opposed to conscript; specifically, a voluntary member of the organized militia of a country as distinguished from the standing army. (law) A person who acts out of his own will without a legal obligation, such as a donor. (botany, agriculture) A plant that grows spontaneously, without being cultivated on purpose; see volunteer plant in Wikipedia. A native or resident of the American state of Tennessee. So. AGAIN. If you are asked to do something, are you really volunteering? No. If you give something before being asked, are you volunteering? YES. Mmmm... The spirit of the game is a game of collaboration, and gentlemanly play. Holoprojectors, impersonations and camo states are for deceit indeed, but within limits, like how the rules do not state anywhere you are allowed to deploy less than the full complement of markers... so I cannot deploy, legally, Patroclus as 2 Asuras to hide my 2 Dasyus cost on the list. Am I bending the rules? I obviously think not. And mind you, I play with Patroclus. And Hafzas, and Bashi Bazouks. And Speculo Killers, and Fidays. And Zeros, Spekters, Dasyus, Nagas... So I am, if anything, MORE interested in making Holoprojector gear as powerful as possible. Yet I go for the fair and square, because I have not one but four different armies, so being partidist would be quite stupid on my part.
I am under the impression that one of the key changes from N2 to N3 game expansion was that English became as it was put "the source of truth". If there is a conflict between the two languages, English wins as the default. Your attempts to bend words through translation aren't really effective by the way. The spirit of the game is indeed collaboration to play the game through, however part of the game is small pockets of deceit. Drop troops, Camo, Holoprojectors all fill this role. In the same way not peeking at your opponents list is part of collaborating to play the game through, having to go through the motions of uncovering and unveiling hidden and disguised troops is also part of the game. Demanding that your opponent gimp his models rules because you don't want to play the game properly is against the spirit of the game. Holoprojectors are designed to disguise models. To uncover them, you need to come to the conclusion that your opponent's models are behaving weirdly and ask the right questions to reveal what is truly there. As I have already pointed out, the rules support this as they are written. That's how you're supposed to play the game. That's part of the game. In my eyes, complaining otherwise is just being a poor sport.
Sorry, I just linked the english Wikipedia page for "Volunteer". That is not me translating, that is me showing you the error of your ways. As for your impression of "english is default, spanish is second", that is not stated on any book, FAQ or wiki. So no game there. For the record, Morgana's example is also in the spanish version of the rules, we just see it as it is: "an enemy troop gets inside Morgana's Zone of Control", that means there is no Line of Fire... so she can't really ARO as she wills, can she? Of course, her ARO options are EVEN LESS. The Sepulcher Knigh has Martial Arts L2. That means he has Stealth... AND it is a Marker, so she has the right of Delay ARO... because it was an empty holoecho, so Holo N2 was used... Quite the useless example here, I'd say. I can't stop laughing there. Seriously. First you try to drop me, not my words, down. Then you try to put yourself (again) on a high horse. Go back to read the rulebook, and try to understand it properly (see? I added a word you like there) this time. Any game is to be examined, criticized and improved outside of the table. When you play it, you follow the rules. And the rules ARE CRISTAL CLEAR: Open information HAS TO BE VOLUNTEERED. Hackable is OPEN INFORMATION. And: To volunteer means to provide something by one's free will. As I provided links for. You are welcome to look into your local dictionary if you still chose to not believe me, anyway.
You're adding ideas that aren't there. LOF isn't a requirement to gain access to the information of whether the holoprojected unit is hackable, ZOC is, that's why ZOC is brought up. Whether there's LOF is irrelevant for this piece of information, so we simply assume as there is an ARO being given LOF is already established. I am reading the rules correctly. The rules do not demand that open information be volunteered without prompting. At every step the rules support open information being truthfully given when asked for it. Trying to argue otherwise is just wrong. Plain and simple. Demanding that your opponent gimp his models is being a poor sport, it's very simple. If you want to play like that that's up to you, but I certainly wouldn't behave in such a manner. This is the same as the time that you tried to argue that the courtesy rules allow your opponent to know that a holo projected unit is actually a unit that carries a repeater and that he is moving through a repeater zone. You were being ridiculous then and you're being ridiculous about it now.
Yes, you must divulge this information if your opponent asks for it. No amount of your complaining is going to change what's written there. If they don't twig that a model is behaving in an odd fashion, then congratulations you have successfully deceived your opponent by using a part of the rules that operates via deception. Do you complain when someone successfully bluffs you in a game of poker? Because complaining when you fall to someone's bluff through a holoprojector is the same.
@Triumph and if you made your opponent ask for it every time one of your holoprojector models enters his models' hacking area, as a TO, I'd give you a warning for slowing play down.
You'd be an awful TO. "Hackable?" "No." Yep 3 second conversation that would occur 3-5 times tops during a game some real slow play there. As a disclaimer, I am assuming the players don't have brain damage here and only need to ask for a model once and not every time it enters a ZOC, and use a process of elimination to determine that asking whether models like Panguuling is hackable to try and determine if it's a Lu Duan is a pointless excercise.
No hed be right inline with community expectations of sportsmanship fair play and a cooperative gaming experience. Open info is open. Its information that your opponent is entitled to know at all times and that you as a player are expected share with your opponent in a open and truthful manner. In this instance the information changes from private to open information. Given the owner of the holo echo is the only one able to judge when this point occurs it is up to them to ensure that their opppnent is made aware of the new open information.
No, you'd have to enumerate what hacking programs the target was able to be targeted by. The rules state that you have to reveal Private Information when it becomes Open (this is why you have to let your opponent know when they kill your Lieutenant.)
Again, as the rules state if they ask for it. That's how the rules work. Complaining otherwise is just being a poor sport. Incorrect actually. You need to let your opponent know you're in loss of LT because the rules explicitly state you must declare it.
No the rules state that it may change during a game after depmoyment and therefore must be disclosed at that point. You need to read the whole rule, not just the first part. Furthermore this is why when a camo tolen reveals you must divulge all open information about the model. The contents of the marker have changed from private to open information. Your Private Information remains secret until a specific game event forces you to disclose it. This specific game event is not your opponent asking, it is the moment that it changes from private to open. Ie: a camo marker reveals or a holo ends up withing hacking area.
@Triumph Loss of Lieutenant only happens during your opponent's Active Turn. I'm talking about how when your Lt is moved to Dead, you have to tell them right then, because Dead troopers have all their Private info become Open. From the wiki: The courtesy list is a shorthand way of disclosing all of your Open Information at the beginning of the game. If at any time information that once was Private becomes Open, you must disclose it. There's no middle ground - information is either secret (Private) or disclosed (Open).
